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Sellers out of control
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December 5, 2023 - 10:21 pm
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I am not sure why I continue to look at gunbroker, when I continue to see sellers putting these outrageous prices on their auctions. Unbelieveable.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/1013974118

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December 5, 2023 - 10:49 pm
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Bit on the high side, but such exceptional cond!  Economical shipping, too.

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December 5, 2023 - 11:18 pm
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its not Gunbroker posting them its the sellers as  you noted. In my mind Gunbroker is like the wild west I have purchased stuff off them but I go on to look at prices to see what they are for particular guns. I find it hard to believe some sellers prices on new rifle and guns where they are lower than what a wholesale buyer could get from Zander’s or Lipesy’s etc by sometimes a lot.

Rob 

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December 5, 2023 - 11:22 pm
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   That gun doesn’t look like it has a 24″ barrel. T/R

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December 5, 2023 - 11:28 pm
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TR said
   That gun doesn’t look like it has a 24″ barrel. T/R

  

I certainly agree with that.

And yes, an outrageous asking price.

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December 6, 2023 - 12:08 am
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steve004 said

And yes, an outrageous asking price. 

Come on, Steve, seller is trying to be reasonable:  WAS 7 thou, now reduced to 6.5!  He & other Cally dealers have a captive market, since most dealers outside the state won’t ship there. 

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December 6, 2023 - 12:31 am
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So what’s this rifle really worth?  $1200 perhaps?

Some folks never learn that condition trumps special order features in most cases.

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December 6, 2023 - 1:24 am
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mrcvs said
So what’s this rifle really worth?  $1200 perhaps?

Some folks never learn that condition trumps special order features in most cases.

  

Might be a bit more interesting without that extra zero left of the decimal point.

 

Mike

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December 10, 2023 - 10:42 pm
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It’s not just gunbroken. I went to a local show and some dealer sticks a beat up M94 winchester in 30 30 in my face and says “I’ll bet you never saw one of these before”! I told him I saw one an hour ago in my safe in exceptional condition. He asked me what his was worth, I told him maybe $500 for parts. He shoo’d me away. Next show he has it layed out on his table with a 5K price tag on it.Kiss

 I buy the occasional gun from gunbroken but I generally don’t pay attention to the hyper inflated prices. Lately I have been making offers after closed auctions and paying far less than their asking price. I don’t think that’s in the rules, but it works well.

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December 11, 2023 - 4:51 pm
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Imo this is a case of flippers versus collectors. Flippers have no attachment, they’re profit driven only & most times not affiliated to a membership or group that respects or even cares about all the other aspects to collecting etc. Most of us have sold guns to buy a better one or when getting older and time to part ways, but flippers ask enormous prices or list at way over value and just hope they find a sucker or a green horn to buy their overpriced gun that sometimes is misrepresented or has undisclosed issues. 
I’m not sure if I described my thoughts clearly here or entirely & doesn’t apply to all sellers. Ultimately it’s on the buyer whether the price is paid or not. 

 RickC 

   

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December 11, 2023 - 5:08 pm
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RickC said  flippers ask enormous prices or list at way over value and just hope they find a sucker or a green horn to buy their overpriced gun.

Rich suckers, that is.  But Gunbroker keeps them well supplied.

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December 11, 2023 - 11:56 pm
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  It’s my opinion that most collectors are flippers. If we as collectors kept every gun we bought it would be boring. Boys need new toys.

  You don’t have to look any farther than RIA to see what it cost for a minty gun. The average gun collector has to sell a lot of shooters and farmer guns to buy  a RIA Premier Auction gun.  But you can go to Gunbroker and buy a gun that you think is nice until you open the box.

  No free lunch. I’ve never bought a true bargain but I have bought nice guns at a fair price that over time seem like a bargain. Buy for the long haul. T/R

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December 12, 2023 - 1:47 am
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TR said
  It’s my opinion that most collectors are flippers.

Rick’s explanation of what he called “flippers” (but I’d call speculators) was very clear & does NOT include “most (true) collectors.” 

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December 12, 2023 - 2:23 am
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I’m not a collector of pristine objects because 1. my budget won’t support that and let me experience all the models I want to study and use; but also 2. I have long and significant experience professionally with fraudsters and con men.  I know how much I don’t know and have the scars on my wallet to remind me.  

If I were an aspiring Collector with a capital “C”, a species I admire and respect,  I would stay well away from Gunbroker and Auction Arms, et al. Because, after almosr a couple hundred transactions on both sides of the auction hammer, I know I can’t judge originality and condition with photographs and cross examination.

The very few happy and lucky buys I’ve made in the last twenty years have been in person from dealers, some of whom did not recognize the piece of gold among the dross. Knowledge really is power but not at long distance. 

- Bill 

 

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"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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December 12, 2023 - 12:15 pm
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Zebulon said
I’m not a collector of pristine objects because 1. my budget won’t support that and let me experience all the models I want to study and use; but also 2. I have long and significant experience professionally with fraudsters and con men.  I know how much I don’t know and have the scars on my wallet to remind me.  

If I were an aspiring Collector with a capital “C”, a species I admire and respect,  I would stay well away from Gunbroker and Auction Arms, et al. Because, after almosr a couple hundred transactions on both sides of the auction hammer, I know I can’t judge originality and condition with photographs and cross examination.

The very few happy and lucky buys I’ve made in the last twenty years have been in person from dealers, some of whom did not recognize the piece of gold among the dross. Knowledge really is power but not at long distance. 

  

I can’t dispute any of that and agree 100%. 

 RickC 

   

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December 12, 2023 - 1:48 pm
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I enjoy watching the auctions and have learned a great deal from them, even benefitted from them on occasion. I consider myself a collector even though as my retirement date draws near my discretionary funds are increasingly limited. I’ve always enjoyed collecting the specimens I can afford and enjoyed studying the pricier examples from afar and in most cases I haven’t strayed from that strategy. In today’s market I can’t fault a seller for pushing the boundaries, it is obviously a strategy that is working in a surprising number of cases we’ve observed. I’ll be thinning the herd a bit in coming months but I’ll do it the old fashioned way, sitting behind a table and passing the time with fellow collectors while waiting for someone to decide my prices are reasonable or makes an offer he hopes I won’t refuse. Auctions are fun but I like the slower pace of an old fashioned gun show!

 

Mike

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Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
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December 12, 2023 - 2:02 pm
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I was following Rock Island ‘s auction on the weekend, I definetly couldn’t afford to buy any of the Winchester offerings. But I thought one of You fellas would have picked up Stuart’s 1 of 1000, it wasn’t You was it RickWink. I’ve been a collector/seller etc. for many years. I have made pretty good $’s on some pieces and have taken some bad hits on others, I don’t know everything there is to know about all the Winchesters and usually go on instinct when buying, I usually try to buy collections, opposed to single pieces, especially if they are intended for resale. I’ll keep 1 or2 pieces and peddle the rest. I got to admit I am an opportunist and usually take advantage of a “good deal” when I see one, if I can afford it, I don’t have bottomless pockets like some buyers. Not mentioning any names here but We’ve all seen the fellas at the major gun shows walking around with a brief case full of cash and picking up whatever They take a shine to. Well good for them and good for the guy selling. This has been a self-sustaining hobby for Me over the years. My first collectable guns were 2 1893 Marlins I bought from a co-worker for $50.00 for the pair, back in 1968. My Wife was pretty pissed ’cause We couldn’t afford $50.00 for “guns”. I sold them after a year or so for $100.00 each, eventually She changed Her mind and was looking for guns for Me. I say what a person spends on something They want is Their own business, the price may sound outrgeous to us but maybe We don’t know the whole story and like I said it’s none of My business. Yes there are a lot of scammers out there but the same is true for any hobby. From 1st. hand experience I gotta say “caveat emptor”.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

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December 12, 2023 - 2:57 pm
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No Henry, it wasn’t me who bought the 1 of 1000. I’ve recently transitioned to the nicest guns I can buy around the $2500 range and I appreciate the honest wear and these guns, as much as any others. I find I’m just as happy with those and enjoy them with a lot less money into them.

I don’t look at those who purchase collections to get a gun or guns that they want and re-sell the others, as the same flipper type that I was trying to convey. There’s nothing wrong with being an opportunist, my comments are for the sellers who are merely profit driven & no value for historical significance, respect for the collector world, etc. this topic is very subjective and can be tossed around from several angles. Jmo

 RickC 

   

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December 12, 2023 - 4:55 pm
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In reflecting on this and what is happening out there on the larger scale, I think it is a simple matter of buyers out of control.  Sellers merely respond to what buyers (or just that one buyer – it’s all it takes) will pay.  If you’re a seller, why wouldn’t that be the main thing you would respond to?

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December 12, 2023 - 6:42 pm
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steve004 said
In reflecting on this and what is happening out there on the larger scale, I think it is a simple matter of buyers out of control.  Sellers merely respond to what buyers (or just that one buyer – it’s all it takes) will pay.  If you’re a seller, why wouldn’t that be the main thing you would respond to?

  

I am an admirer of the late, irascable John T. Amber, a man of considerable taste and a fierce defender of the King’s English and historical accuracy, to whom all firearm collectors owe a considerable debt of gratitude for his work bringing the (former) Gun Digest to us as a serious resource. However, as we know, Maximum John was a no-[kidding] collector once described as “an affable, steel trap”, who also delighted in getting his fellow collectors to pay full price and sometimes more (“I got the bastard!”.)  

When Amber died, his estate auctioned off his collection of choice and rare guns for over a million 1986 dollars. But what set Amber apart was his real love of the objects and the history and use of those objects.  Contrast that with the sad history of the late Larry Wilson, who also cherished such things but flew too near the Sun. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; Life Member, National Rifle Association; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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