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Saving historic guns in California
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October 13, 2019 - 3:15 am
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I don’t want this to be a political discussion or turn into one.  I wonder if there are categories of firearms that need to be saved in/from California and can we do it?

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October 13, 2019 - 2:02 pm
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Unsure of what you are asking…Are the people in charge taking/confiscating/throwing away these guns? In my opinion…never mind!

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October 13, 2019 - 3:00 pm
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Not sure what you are getting at. I live in Los Angeles and yes, the new laws just signed by our overlord governor generally restrict 80% AR-15 style lowers (precursor parts) and our right to due process (red flag laws). Without getting too political it’s a horrible state of affairs but generally won’t affect collectors here (yet) unless someone doesn’t like you and has your collection confiscated. That’s the new reality here. 

Additionally the “one gun in 30 days” rule has been extended to long guns as it did with handguns. C&R holders have been exempt and I haven’t seen any change to that, but I’m not fully aware of that situation. 

True, collecting here is an uphill battle. And the overlords would just as well love to see 100% disarmament. In addition I am sure they make these laws as confusing as possible to deter people from even doing business in CA. That’s my biggest deterrent to collecting – a lot of sellers just plain won’t ship to CA (even C&R). It sucks and can be very frustrating but on some level I can’t blame them. 

 

Steve

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October 13, 2019 - 4:05 pm
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supergimp said
In addition I am sure they make these laws as confusing as possible to deter people from even doing business in CA. That’s my biggest deterrent to collecting – a lot of sellers just plain won’t ship to CA (even C&R). It sucks and can be very frustrating but on some level I can’t blame them. 

 Steve  

Sounds like interference with interstate commerce to me.  Some gun rights organizations seem to think their time and resources are better spent at the legislative/lobbying level.  However, there should be a group that litigates, and that’s all they do.  Every time some poor sap gets caught up in the “law”, the group comes in with a metric shit-ton of money and the best lawyers in the country; take this crap all the way up to the Supreme Court.  In addition, they actually go out and “manufacture” test cases like was done with the civil rights movement.  We are, after all, talking about a civil right.  I would suggest the ACLU but apparently they mistakenly think the 2ndA is a “collective” right, unlike all the other rights in the Bill of Rights.  There’s a vacuum here.  Why it’s not filled, is beyond me.  I know the ACLU objects to the red flag law, but there’s probably some argument they’re using to re-write the law in such a way that it would then only harm the people the law is really intended to hurt (us).

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October 13, 2019 - 6:52 pm
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Huck Riley said
Sounds like interference with interstate commerce to me.  Some gun rights organizations seem to think their time and resources are better spent at the legislative/lobbying level.  However, there should be a group that litigates, and that’s all they do.  Every time some poor sap gets caught up in the “law”, the group comes in with a metric shit-ton of money and the best lawyers in the country; take this crap all the way up to the Supreme Court.  In addition, they actually go out and “manufacture” test cases like was done with the civil rights movement.  We are, after all, talking about a civil right.  I would suggest the ACLU but apparently they mistakenly think the 2ndA is a “collective” right, unlike all the other rights in the Bill of Rights.  There’s a vacuum here.  Why it’s not filled, is beyond me.  I know the ACLU objects to the red flag law, but there’s probably some argument they’re using to re-write the law in such a way that it would then only harm the people the law is really intended to hurt (us).  

We actually have that here in California and they have been relatively successful (by comparison to the past). The California Rifle and Pistol Association is supported by a very active law firm (Michel and Associates) that not only has been defending CA gun owners and fiiling pro-2A law suits in varios state and federal courts. Because of this, the 10-day wait in CA has actually been overturned several years ago, however the DOJ appealed and the case has been in limbo ever since as the state judicial system refuses to put it on the docket.

Several months ago, we had “Freedom Week” here in California when CRPA filed with pro-2A friendly US District Judge Roger Benitez (a hero to many of us here in CA) who overturned the California magazine capacity ban in an exceptionally written Constitutionally supported opinion. Judge Benitez had enough forethought to know that CA would appeal and try to stop sales, and so included in his decision the inability for CA to do anything for a week and anyone importing, acquiring, or purchasing magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds was granted immunity from prosecution. The entire industry nationwide rallied and something like 5M (don’t quote me on the number, it was very large) “large capacity” magazines were brought into the state in 7 days. The big retailers were ONLY shipping to CA that week and most places were sold out of inventory – all headed to CA.

So it’s slow going, but there is a fight, and CRPA has been fronting that fight along with a few others.

In another turn of affairs, it was recently revealed that charges were essentially dropped against a person manufacturing and selling firearms based on 80% lowers without a license. He was clearly guilty of selling to felons and not having a manufacturing license, etc. However the case was dropped by the DOJ, when it was realized that the argument that an AR-15 lower receiver (the part deemed a “firearm” by the ATF) didn’t actually qualify as the Federal definition of “receiver” and thus is not regulated as a firearm. Knowing that this would escalate to SCOTUS and probably upset laws across the country, they let the guy go rather than face scrutiny.

Regardless, it’s clear that the super majority in CA just wants us to turn in EVERYTHING and while much of the current legislation doesn’t directly affect collectors of old rifles, they certainly would love to (and have) get in the way of transfers, selling, buying and general collection of firearms.

Sorry if this got political, but I strongly believe in personal freedoms and all of this has nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with political positioning and suppression of the populous.

 

Steve

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October 13, 2019 - 7:11 pm
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I think it has a lot to do with collecting. The general demonization of guns makes the hobby of collecting them less attractive to the younger generation. With the baby boomer (and older) collectors dying off and the younger generations showing little interest the pool of buyers is shrinking while the selection of available collectible firearms is growing. The laws of supply and demand are very much at work today in the market value of the guns we love. 

 

Mike

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October 13, 2019 - 7:19 pm
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supergimp said

In another turn of affairs, it was recently revealed that charges were essentially dropped against a person manufacturing and selling firearms based on 80% lowers without a license. He was clearly guilty of selling to felons and not having a manufacturing license, etc. However the case was dropped by the DOJ, when it was realized that the argument that an AR-15 lower receiver (the part deemed a “firearm” by the ATF) didn’t actually qualify as the Federal definition of “receiver” and thus is not regulated as a firearm. Knowing that this would escalate to SCOTUS and probably upset laws across the country, they let the guy go rather than face scrutiny. 

Steve  

I just read about that on another site.  At first blush, it seemed like the judge did a good thing, but apparently he gave the DOJ a head’s up instead of just issuing the opinion.  A wag on the other site said: “I believe the judge is complicit as well. Either through stupidity or actual ill-intent. Giving the prosecutors a “heads up” as to what his ruling would be flagrantly violates ethical boundaries in my mind. By his own words and actions, the judge clearly understands that current enforcement measures are being done in an unConstitutional manner. He knows his ruling would set a precedent. His obligation towards Constitutional law and his seat in the Judicial Branch as one of the ‘checks’ in the check and balances system would imply that he has a duty to allow the prosecution to proceed so that he may correct the situation. But he did not.”

Interesting angle.

Anyway, I think the rest of a country has a dog in the fight since CA often sets the trend for the rest of us.  I will look into that group and that law firm to see if I think they deserve any of my paltry dollars.  Thanks.

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October 13, 2019 - 9:04 pm
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Maybe I should have gone to bed before I posted instead of the contrary,  seems that I perhaps read a little too much into my own worry about these things rather than searching out the facts.

I was thinking how running a Winchester rescue could be my calling,  guess I’ll just have to continue searching them out and buying when I can.Embarassed

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October 13, 2019 - 10:29 pm
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jban said
Maybe I should have gone to bed before I posted instead of the contrary,  seems that I perhaps read a little too much into my own worry about these things rather than searching out the facts.

I was thinking how running a Winchester rescue could be my calling,  guess I’ll just have to continue searching them out and buying when I can.Embarassed  

Well, just in case, I will run a safe house, underground railroad for any old Winchester lever guns. You know, civic duty and all.Laugh

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October 13, 2019 - 11:49 pm
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I lost everything in a tragic boating accident, so now I am merely an outside spectator.

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