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Mark59 said
Chuck, good suggestion. My cousin is in SASS up in Cheyenne. I will reach out to him and his group.Clarence, I did try both. I tried snap caps and live rounds. I believe it may handle the .38 also, but cycling was the same.
It would be useful to know a little more about how the extraction/ejection/feeding/chambering sequence is misfunctioning. At a guess, a chambered round extracts and ejects consistently but either (a) the fresh cartridge doesn’t release from the magazine onto the lifter cleanly, or (b) the fresh cartridge on the lifter will not cleanly enter the chamber on the closing stroke of the lever, and hangs up.
Can you say WHEN in the cycle the fault occurs? If we know when, it can help isolate WHAT is causing the fault. If the fault occurs on the closing stroke, the first thing to exclude is whether the fresh cartridge is misaligned. It should be possible to see what part of the cartridge is hanging up, by slowly closing the bolt on a dummy round while shining a bore light down the barrel from the muzzle end and closely observing the face of the chamber. Perhaps the tip of the bullet won’t center in the chamber. Perhaps the forward edge of the case hangs on the chamber’s outer edge. Painting the bullet and case edge of the dummy round with white liquid eraser (white lipstick if you can’t find the former) and cycling it can leave clues.
I agree with Clarence that the 92 conversions were far too popular to have been a bad idea. They were popular in law enforcement circles, which don’t — can’t–tolerate unreliable arms. The LE impetus was ammunition availability and cost. Compatibility too, although more than a couple of 1892s chambered in 44-40 have been converted to 44 Magnum, never mind relative breach pressures…
In general with lever guns and their relatively complex, closely timed, actions, cartridge OAL and bullet shape are the Usual Suspects. But the issue can be more subtle.
Not to worry. Just get a ‘smith with a well known [to WACA members] reputation for diagnosing and smoothing out lever gun feeding problems. Avoid Bubba’s Gun’s N Gear Clinic — We Fix Anything! The good ones are few, well known, busy, and an unmitigated blessing. The bad ones are Satan’s own.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
Online
Mark-
In response to your last question in post 13 my answer should mean nothing to you. Collect the guns YOU like, and like the guns YOU collect. We all have different tastes and preferences and that’s what keeps things interesting around here. Cool part is, whatever you choose to focus on, someone here will be able to help you. Some of us focus on multiple areas and others (like me) continually refine their focus. My biggest challenge to date is finding a Winchester I DON’T like so I’m no help. The Miroku offerings are indeed pleasant to gaze upon but are beyond the scope of this group’s interest.
Books will help you determine your area of interest, if you choose to shoot your Winchesters a good loading manual will do a much better job of explaining the process of making your own ammo than many hours of YouTube videos. OTOH if you decide you really like rimfires and/or shotguns you’ll won’t need to experience the joys and frustrations of reloading.
Mike
I can explain the cycling problem, i think.
Bill, If I manually load a round through the top it will fire and eject fine. If I load one or more rounds through the side gate, the round will not chamber, but gets stuck between the loading ramp and the barrel. If forced it would appear to crease the brass on the barrel end near the leading edge of the brass. It does this with standard blunt nose .357 and .38 rounds. I have not tried the Leverevolution rounds by Hornady. Gun Smith at Large in Denver looked at it, but did not diagnose it. I had it in there years ago, just to have them look it over and see if it was safe to shoot. They said it was, but there was a feed problem. If anyone knows of a good lever gunsmith in the Denver or the Gunnison, Colorado areas please let me know. Otherwise, as recommended by Clarence, I will contact John Taylor in Idaho to see if he can look at it.
Mike, I like the old Winchesters, I don’t have much interest in the reproductions right now. I guess my focus has been on 1892 Saddle Ring Carbines. I started looking at 94’s because I felt I could find ammo for them easier in the 30-30 round rather than starting to reload or paying $$/round for another 1892. My research is going to focus on the 1892, 1873 and 94 SRC’s. I seem to like those the best. Through an auction however, I did just learn about an 1873 octagon barrel short rifle. That was very interesting. Never knew about those. Mission creep, right?
I had a similar problem due to reloading with a wadcutter type bullet. The lip on the bullet snagged on the bottom of the chamber. manual loading one at a time worked fine.
Mike’s focus approximates mine: that of a kid in a candy store.
Reloading is best learned by acquiring one of the complete sets offered by the major manufacturers. I started with an RCBS Rockchucker kit and still have it. The included manual is a great teaching tool and can keep you out of trouble. Hornady offers a similar set and you can’t go wrong with either one. Stay away from progressive presses until you’re further along. Even if you get one eventually you’ll still want the single stage press for rifle cartridges in small batches.
There is one alternative to start with, if you’re flush: a turret press. It performs one operation at a time but allows you to leave the dies set up, unless you change calibers. Die setup is time consuming, particularly for progressive machines, but single stage presses require changing dies for each step. There are no cheap, good turret presses. I think the Redding T-7 is peerless but the bare tool will set you back more than the cost of an entire single stage kit. Lyman makes a good one too, that’s somewhat less expensive. The good news is that anything sold by RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Redding, or Lee, is going to last several lifetimes.
Lee is the low cost, slightly rougher brand that stirred up the competition and still does. Redding is the most expensive and finely finished. Both will do the job and either can produce match grade ammo. It’s all on the operator.
I encourage you to get into reloading. You’ll shoot more centerfire and it will enhance your enjoyment of our hobby. AND you can stop buying silly priced dummy cartridges and make your own for cheap.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
86Win said
I had a similar problem due to reloading with a wadcutter type bullet. The lip on the bullet snagged on the bottom of the chamber. manual loading one at a time worked fine.
If I understand Mark’s description of the brass damage, it sounds like some part of the case mouth is catching on the chamber face.
That could be caused by the cartridge being carried forward in a misaligned – cocked- position, which can be a fault caused by a worn or out of spec component of the lifter assembly. Too subtle for my paygrade. Mark, when you say single loading works o.k., do you fit the cartridge into the lifter or just insert it directly into the chamber?
Another possibility. I don’t know whether the converter rebarreled the rifle or bored out the factory barrel and installed a liner, but either way there is a new chamber face. Granted the .38 Special or Magnum case headspaces on the rim, but perhaps the chamber mouth is too square — insufficiently radiused. The original 92 cartridge designs all featured tapered case diameters. The 38 Long Colt parent case is not tapered nor are its descendants.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Die setup is time consuming, particularly for progressive machines, but single stage presses require changing dies for each step.Zebulon said
Quick-change dies in the Forster Co-Ax press, which, though invented in the ’70s by Bonanza, is still in a “class of its own,” I think.
Clarence, I agree. I have 3 presses and I love the Forster Co Ax. The Forster is set up for sizing, another for seating bullets and the rock chucker for decapping, expanding necks and misc dirty work. The Forster is so quick to change the dies and has a lot of leverage. I hate having to screw the dies in and out. This press allows the case and the die to float to better align themselves. It is not so good when priming though. It is not a worry for me because I use a separate priming tool. If someone wanted a turret press it should be the Redding T 7. If you have this one you can buy separate plates for each die set.
Clarence, I agree. I have 3 presses and I love the Forester Co Ax. The Forester is set up for sizing, another for seating bullets and the rock chucker for decapping, expanding necks and misc dirty work. The Forester is so quick to change the dies and has a lot of leverage. I hate having to screw the dies in and out. This press allows the case and the die to float to better align themselves. It is not so good when priming though. It is not a worry for me because I use a separate priming tool.Chuck said
I’ve always used a hand primer, though if you lack the right case holder, the Forster doesn’t need one. Mine is an original Bonanza, the most innovative loading tool maker of its time, until bought out by Forster.
clarence said
I’ve always used a hand primer, though if you lack the right case holder, the Forster doesn’t need one. Mine is an original Bonanza, the most innovative loading tool maker of its time, until bought out by Forster.
I forgot to mention the fact that you don’t need to buy shell holders. I can’t use a hand primer for very long so I have a couple of bench primers. If I had it to do all over again, which I can’t afford, I would have 3 Forsters. I really like having all three dies set up at once.
Chuck said
Clarence, I agree. I have 3 presses and I love the Forster Co Ax. The Forster is set up for sizing, another for seating bullets and the rock chucker for decapping, expanding necks and misc dirty work. The Forster is so quick to change the dies and has a lot of leverage. I hate having to screw the dies in and out. This press allows the case and the die to float to better align themselves. It is not so good when priming though. It is not a worry for me because I use a separate priming tool. If someone wanted a turret press it should be the Redding T 7. If you have this one you can buy separate plates for each die set.
I have three presses also: A T-7 for business, the old Rockchucker for pulling bullets and misc tasks, and a genuine, original Hornady Projector for when I want to make myself crazy. Perhaps one of you gentlemen would make me a semi-reasonable offer on the Projector so I could buy some more Redding turret plates and a stacker?
Christmas is just around the corner.
Your friend,
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
Online
I feel like an underachiever once again, I’ve been using the same RCBS RS press for forty years supplemented by an aluminum frame RCBS mounted on a portable table for range trips where “some assembly is required”. I’ve worn out so many Lee priming tools I keep a spare stashed somewhere in addition to one for each primer size. When I need bulk pistol ammo in a hurry there’s an early Dillon 550 lurking under its blue overcoat towards the end of the bench….but none of the die sets end in WCF.
Mike
TXGunNut said
I feel like an underachiever once again, I’ve been using the same RCBS RS press for forty years supplemented by an aluminum frame RCBS mounted on a portable table for range trips where “some assembly is required”. I’ve worn out so many Lee priming tools I keep a spare stashed somewhere in addition to one for each primer size. When I need bulk pistol ammo in a hurry there’s an early Dillon 550 lurking under its blue overcoat towards the end of the bench….but none of the die sets end in WCF.
Mike
Mike, I used my Rock Chucker for years. But when I started shooting modern bolt actions I needed some better tools. I have since overhauled most every tool I have.
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