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Question for up coming auctions
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October 25, 2023 - 9:09 pm
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I see a couple of guns coming up for auction. Both seem to have things I questioned. Model 12 in 28 gauge with 2 7/8” chamber and of course in serial range that can’t be verified 1208423. The other is a model 52 Sporting deluxe with a serial that can’t be verified 36701 for configuration. Both of these models are common fakes on the market. Comments welcome, plans are to pass on them

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October 25, 2023 - 11:10 pm
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Without knowing what auctions you are referencing, I don’t see how anyone can give you much (if any) additional information.

BRP

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October 25, 2023 - 11:23 pm
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Ike said The other is a model 52 Sporting deluxe with a serial that can’t be verified 36701 for configuration.
  

This serial places mfg. in April, 1935, so it should be an “A” variant, probably unmarked; however, this is near the beginning of A production, so there may be overlap with the previous model.  Can you provide photos?  

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October 26, 2023 - 3:23 am
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I’m not very good with technology so best pictures would be from the actual site. Please look at Five star auction from Arapaho Nebraska . Item number 148 and 223. Just interested in your views, on the six guns I picked out only 1 can be confirmed as legitimate from Winchester records. Maybe I’m to cautious?

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October 26, 2023 - 1:14 pm
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Ike said
I’m not very good with technology so best pictures would be from the actual site. Please look at Five star auction from Arapaho Nebraska . Item number 148 and 223. Just interested in your views, on the six guns I picked out only 1 can be confirmed as legitimate from Winchester records. Maybe I’m to cautious?

  

I don’t know if you’re too cautious, but if you expect others to search auctions of no interest to themselves, you expect too much.

t=16s

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October 26, 2023 - 3:36 pm
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October 26, 2023 - 4:45 pm
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LOT #148, a Winchester 52 Sporting rifle appears to be a Pre-A model, as the safety does not extend forward over the back of the receiver, as it does on the A Model.  A better, more detailed photo could answer that question.  It has at least two non-factory holes that I can see (on the barrel) which probably means there are at least two more on the receiver, as it was drilled and tapped for a scope.  Also, without a clear picture of the rear locking lug, I can not determine whether or not the rear lug is cracked, which is a common malady on the Pre-A Model 52. 

BRP

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October 26, 2023 - 4:47 pm
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I will leave it to someone more knowledgeable than I am to comment on the Model 12 28 gauge skeet gun.

BRP

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October 26, 2023 - 6:39 pm
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Blue Ridge Parson said  It has at least two non-factory holes that I can see (on the barrel) which probably means there are at least two more on the receiver, as it was drilled and tapped for a scope.  Also, without a clear picture of the rear locking lug, I can not determine whether or not the rear lug is cracked, which is a common malady on the Pre-A Model 52. 
BRP

  

Actually, if you’re looking for one to shoot, rather than hoard, I’d consider this good news, as it should drop the price significantly. And if I intended to shoot it, I’d sure want to mount a period scope, so it’s ready for that.  Gun doesn’t appear to have been used a great deal, so I think a cracked lug is unlikely, but even if it’s there, it doesn’t harm shooting it.

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October 27, 2023 - 4:51 pm
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Don’t these guns come drilled and tapped for scope mounts?  If so there should be 4 holes in the barrel.  2 for each mount.

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October 27, 2023 - 8:37 pm
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This rifle is a pre A. However it is right in the range when the change was made to unmarked A’s. There are 2 extra holes in barrel as BRP mentioned, but worse than that is that it appears the flat on the top rear of receiver has been extended forward for an area to mount the rear scope base. Also there is at least 1 hole in this area for the base, most likely 2. 

     Chuck, the Sporters were only d/t’d for bases under special order until the C models which came d/t’d.

Steve

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October 27, 2023 - 8:54 pm
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Good catch, Steve.

I wasn’t sure what was going on on the rear receiver ring, and the pictures aren’t very good.  Still I should have seen that. 

Those modifications absolutely relegate this 52 Sporter into the realm of “shooter” and not “collector,” but I have seen many such rifles sell for quite high amounts.  It’s baffling to me the high prices many will pay for a rifle that has been substantially altered. 

BRP

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October 27, 2023 - 9:45 pm
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Blue Ridge Parson said
Good catch, Steve.

I wasn’t sure what was going on on the rear receiver ring, and the pictures aren’t very good.  Still I should have seen that. 

Those modifications absolutely relegate this 52 Sporter into the realm of “shooter” and not “collector,” but I have seen many such rifles sell for quite high amounts.  It’s baffling to me the high prices many will pay for a rifle that has been substantially altered. 

BRP

  

Many don’t know and don’t do their homework. Others don’t care, they just want one for a deal. It would still make someone a great shooter. 

Steve

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October 27, 2023 - 10:33 pm
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seewin said Many don’t know and don’t do their homework. Others don’t care, they just want one for a deal. It would still make someone a great shooter.

Being an expert on whatever you might consider bidding on confers no advantage, esp if there are “problems” with the item, because you can count on bidding against at least one ignoramus who recognizes no problems at all, but has plenty of dough to satisfy an impulse purchase.  I found this proven countless times in the early days of ebay, when I often saw damaged items that were good for parts, but sold for un-damaged prices.

As you say, if this could be bought for its true value, it would make a great hunting rifle.

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October 27, 2023 - 10:40 pm
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I understand that. I have both “collector” rifles and “shooter” rifles.  One of my all time favorite shooters is a Pre-A 52 Sporter with a Unertl scope, that came to me with refinished wood and metal and of course drilled and tapped for the scope mounts.  It is a blast to shoot! It’s the top rifle in this picture.

https://i.imgur.com/ASpL8Cmh.jpgImage Enlarger

But I didn’t pay anything like collector prices for it either. What baffles me is those who pay collector prices for shooter grade rifles. Like you say, they probably just don’t care.  As a man of limited means, I have to care!

BRP

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October 27, 2023 - 11:09 pm
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Blue Ridge Parson said What baffles me is those who pay collector prices for shooter grade rifles. Like you say, they probably just don’t care.  As a man of limited means, I have to care!
BRP

  

Combination of “don’t care” & ignorance.  Can only see bottom two guns in enlarged photo, can’t “move up” in photo which often happens with large photos.  But if you’ve got 4 of them, I’d say you’re doing all right!

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