Tom,

I figure that you don’t have the Giles & Shuey book, or else you might not be asking here, or maybe you still would. However, on page 135 in their book, they talk about the .40-70 wcf cartridge and a couple different boxes. Most of the information is in regards to the three different style boxes, and not a lot about the cartridge itself. From the picture at the top of the page, it’s obvious that the primer has the, “W”, impressed in it, as it’s hard to tell if it is a protected primer with the extra ring around , the “W”. Some of the early mfg. was in the Black Powder cartridges, w/330 grain bullet. The standard bullet was the 330 grain lead bullet. At the top, in the description they show the bullet type as being, L. B.-Lead Bullet, S.P.-Soft Point, F.M.J.-Full Metal Jacket. The 40-70 was produced in Black Powder and Smokeless. This cartridge is compared to the .38-70, in their book, as they both we’re developed at the same time.

The .40-70 Winchester, (different from the .40-70 Sharps Necked), as you know,was developed by Winchester for the model 1886, mainly and I think less than 1000, we’re mfg. according to this publication. I’m sure it was also adapted for the model 1885 S.S. rifle also, I recall in Bert’s survey and Collector article in the magazine.

In reference to you’re question, the Full Metal Jacket was standard. But the 330 grain bullet B.P. Cartridge was quite scarce, according to the book. It’s not in their book, but I’m pretty sure the metal was an early version of the tinned metal jacket, that was talked about, in another category here on the forum. The second box label indicates a, “full metal patched”, bullet, also.

I hope this helps,

Anthony

Tom,

If you can post a picture of the box here, we can try to help you further. As I was saying earlier, I see three box versions. 

1 The first being a dark green typical WRACo box, is B.P.

2 The second is also a B.P. box, with a Red side label, saying, “Metal Patched”.

3 The 34d is the smokeless.

Once again this site chooses to turn my pictures sideways. I tried to change size, etc……………..Very frustrating.

I can also be on the look out for some cartridges, as the Ohio cartridge small show comes up in a couple weeks. I’ll try to find out some more information, along the way, also. I do know a few cartridge collectors and I can touch base with them, and if they have any, you might be able to pick some up a little more reasonable to help fill you’re box.

Anthony

oldcrankyyankee said
I have had some one contact me about some 40-70 cartridges. The two pictures he sent show a cupro-nickel jacketed bullet and the primer has the ‘W” imprint. My feeling is these are not of the black powder era. looking for input. thanks.

Your feeling is correct. Winchester made several primers that have a embossed ‘W’ on them. So I’d have to see a picture and some measurements to know which specific primer it is. That said, all of them with an embossed ‘W’ were made after 1893 and for use in “Nitro” or smokeless powders. 

So your 40-70 cartridge loaded with a W primer is most assuredly made after 1893. And not a black powder loaded cartridge. 

Not sure if this will help or not, but here are a few photos from Daniel L. Shuey’s book: W.R.A. Co. Headstamped Cartridges And Their Variations Volume II.  I included the legend section that includes the abbreviations and symbols (photos #2 and 3) used to interpret the data on the cartridge pages (photos #4, 5, & 6).

Don