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pre 1964 stamped floor plates
November 18, 2020
8:45 pm
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Have a 1949 22 Hornet supergrade .  Has any one ever seen one that  the floor plate is not stamped supergrade?

November 19, 2020
3:35 pm
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Hi amabec-

Were you saying that the floor plate on your rifle is not stamped "SUPER GRADE" or was that a general question?  Either way, the short answer is no.  It is very unlikely that a factory original Super Grade M70 left the factory with a standard floor plate.

The big concern we all have with SGs in pre-1955 time frame is aftermarket "upgrading".  Prior to 1955, the metal finishes on the Std and SG barrels/actions were the same and there were no identifying marks, e.g. "SUPER" stamps applied to the underside of the barrel or receiver.  This changed in 1955 when the factory went back to rust blue on the SG barrels and started jeweling the bolt/extractor/extractor collar/magazine follower of SG actions.  At that point the SG barrels routinely were stamped "SUPER" underneath and the recoil lug of the receivers were stamped with a backwards "S".  But (with a few exceptions) not before.

So all it takes to "make" a 1936-1954 SG is a period correct SG stock, SG floor plate, and correct height Redfield full gold bead front sight. If all the right parts are used and they happen to fit together well, it can be impossible to tell whether a rifle that is a SG today was a SG when it left the factory.  There are no records to consult.  Since the Hornet used a slightly modified floor plate (to accommodate the coil magazine spring) they were stamped "H" on the inside.  Hence, the SG "H" floor plate is the one unique part on a SG 22 HORNET.  Sure, a devious person could modify a SG floor plate to work on a Hornet and stamp an "H" on the inside, but all-in-all I'd be more comfortable with a SG 22 HORNET if it had a SG stamped "H" floor plate.

What front sight is on the subject rifle?

Best,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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November 19, 2020
10:29 pm
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The floor plate is stamped with an H  and the sight looks like the one on the lower rifle you posted pictures of. My uncle passed away many years ago and I inherited all his rifles, they haven't been fired in 40 years but cleaned regularly. I had the sales receipts originally and have misplaced them.  there were 2 super grades  a 22 hornet and a 243.

November 19, 2020
10:53 pm
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Charleston, SC
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Hi amabec-

Compare the front sight to the pics below:

Redfield-Gold-Bead-1.jpgImage EnlargerRedfield-Gold-Bead-2.jpgImage EnlargerRedfield-Gold-Bead-3.jpgImage Enlarger

These are the Redfield full gold bead sights that are found on most M70 SG rifles.  I may get some pushback here, but IMHO prior to 1952, the usual sight on SG M70s in standard calibers from 1936 through 1951 is the second from left.  Redfield 254 (0.310" high from bottom of dovetail to top).  Same height as the Win 103C used on standard grade rifles from 1941-ish to 1952-ish.  Instead of trying to measure, it's easier to count the number of horizontal striations on the back surface of the post.

The Redfield 255 (0.360" high) is the third from left.  This is found on most SG rifles with the regular barrel contour after about 1952...  The change was an adaptation made when the MC stocks were introduced.

BTW... Congrats on having a 243 WIN Super Grade.  They're much less common than the 22 HORNET.  Your Uncle had good taste!!!

Best,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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November 20, 2020
2:08 am
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The goldbead appears to be 3rd from the left.  The serial # is102427 which puts it in 1949 production?  So that front gold bead sight represents 1952? I was told by a winchester collector that the only thing that bothered him about purchasing was the lack of sg stamp and every other detail was correct, I "m getting more confused by the minute.  By the way the 243 is featherweight supergrade which supposedly only a few hundred were made as I was told.

November 20, 2020
2:41 am
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Too bad Hornets require that special plate.  (Something I didn't know.)  Otherwise, you could start looking for one of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-Model-70-Super-Grade-Floor-Plate-Pre-64-/154072673252?hash=item23df726be4%3Ag%3AuaMAAOSwbVNfUWzU&nma=true&si=0w7XCVibAgFtdF2WrxJZ5B072CA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I'd do it if I already had the SG stock. Suspect Lou may disagree rather strenuously, but might as well complete the job someone else started!

November 20, 2020
3:00 am
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Charleston, SC
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Hi Amabec-

First, congrats on the 243 WIN!!!  Laugh  Both the SG FWT and standard weight SG in that chambering are rare guns with <300 each.  In good shape either one is worth a good bit to a M70 collector.  Somewhere in the $5500-$7500 range for either depending on condition...

Second, don't take what I say about Redfield sight heights as Gospel.  I'm prone to get pushback, largely b/c Roger Rule's book says all the SG rifles had the Redfield 255 (0.360" tall) sight regardless of date of manufacture.  It's a long and uninteresting argument why I think Roger wasn't quite right, based on both "logic" and fairly extensive observation. 

The thing is that people dead set on "faking" M70 SGs for the past almost 40 years have not wanted to contradict "the book", so have perpetuated the myth for a few bucks. Used to be that on eBay a Redfield 255 (0.360") sight would fetch >$400 while you couldn't "give away" a Redfield 254 (0.310").  Just proves people can read...

OK guys...  Was that provocative enough???  Where's the pushback?  Surely John (iskra) can weigh in...  What's your take???

Your 22 Hornet SG may or may not have the "right" front sight, depending on who you ask.  I'd say no, many others would say yes...  The floor plate is the thing that would trip up many collectors, just as you described your experience to date...

Best,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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