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New Winchesters but no ammo
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January 25, 2024 - 6:36 pm
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I’ve noticed on the Winchester website they display the current line-up of guns & calibers for sale, but several have no availability for ammo. I’m pretty sure this must hurt their sales. If I was buying a brand new rifle and ammo wasn’t available or any in stock, I would be looking elsewhere. Any thoughts?

 RickC 

   

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January 25, 2024 - 7:05 pm
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Presume only Win brand ammo would be listed, not products of other makers.  But I agree…not much of an incentive to buy those models.

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January 25, 2024 - 7:24 pm
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RickC said
I’ve noticed on the Winchester website they display the current line-up of guns & calibers for sale, but several have no availability for ammo. I’m pretty sure this must hurt their sales. If I was buying a brand new rifle and ammo wasn’t available or any in stock, I would be looking elsewhere. Any thoughts?

  

To reiterate this again, you are not on the “Winchester” website.  It is the Browning Arms Company, a subsidiary of FN Herstal.  They make & sell the guns with the trademarked “Winchester” name on them.

Olin Industries, the owner of the Winchester brand & name still manufactures the Winchester branded ammunition.  Browning Arms is not authorized to sell Winchester, or Remington, or any other brand of ammo.

Your local gun shop can order and sell both the rifle and the ammo, but they are ordering both products from the licensed manufacturer (or distributor).

Bert

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January 25, 2024 - 7:47 pm
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It says Winchester Repeating Arms and the website is winchesterguns.com so one would think it was Winchester but yes fair enough Bert it’s Browning. The dealer said ammo was out of stock, no delivery date available. Maybe it’s different in the US & all ammo available?

 RickC 

   

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January 25, 2024 - 9:50 pm
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RickC said
It says Winchester Repeating Arms and the website is winchesterguns.com so one would think it was Winchester but yes fair enough Bert it’s Browning. The dealer said ammo was out of stock, no delivery date available. Maybe it’s different in the US & all ammo available?

  

Rick,

The Browning Arms Company marketing department has it listed that way intentionally.  However, and as I have stated (at least a few hundred times on this website), they only have the leased rights to use the trademarked “Winchester” name.  Olin Industries has owned the “Winchester” brand since 1931 (and still does today). Olin purposefully got out of the firearms manufacturing business in December 1980.  Every single firearm manufactured since that time (beginning in early 1981 to this very day) with the “Winchester” name on it has been manufactured by either the U.S. Repeating Arms Company or by the Browning Arms Company & FN.  To this very day, “Winchester” branded guns are being manufactured in Japan and Portugal.  These modern guns with the “Winchester” trademarked name on them are not what we (WACA) are trying to preserve.

WACA’s stated focus and purpose is as described on our home page…

Our members are devoted to the preservation, understanding and collecting of Winchester firearms and related products as well as the role these products had in forging America’s heritage.

I personally have no issue with people asking questions about the modern manufactured guns with the Winchester name on them, but I personally feel that it is important to educate those people involved in the topic discussions of the facts about this subject.

Bert

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January 26, 2024 - 8:13 am
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Bert H. said

RickC said

It says Winchester Repeating Arms and the website is winchesterguns.com so one would think it was Winchester but yes fair enough Bert it’s Browning. The dealer said ammo was out of stock, no delivery date available. Maybe it’s different in the US & all ammo available?

  

Rick,

The Browning Arms Company marketing department has it listed that way intentionally.  However, and as I have stated (at least a few hundred times on this website), they only have the leased rights to use the trademarked “Winchester” name.  Olin Industries has owned the “Winchester” brand since 1931 (and still does today). Olin purposefully got out of the firearms manufacturing business in December 1980.  Every single firearm manufactured since that time (beginning in early 1981 to this very day) with the “Winchester” name on it has been manufactured by either the U.S. Repeating Arms Company or by the Browning Arms Company & FN.  To this very day, “Winchester” branded guns are being manufactured in Japan and Portugal.  These modern guns with the “Winchester” trademarked name on them are not what we (WACA) are trying to preserve.

WACA’s stated focus and purpose is as described on our home page…

Our members are devoted to the preservation, understanding and collecting of Winchester firearms and related products as well as the role these products had in forging America’s heritage.

I personally have no issue with people asking questions about the modern manufactured guns with the Winchester name on them, but I personally feel that it is important to educate those people involved in the topic discussions of the facts about this subject.

Bert

  

Just to clarify, I wasn’t looking myself to buy a “new” Winchester(U.S. Repeating Arms Company/Browning Arms Company & FN). I was browsing the internet & was thinking about the ammo not available for firearms currently being sold and what others thought about it. I appreciate your reply Bert and it does educate those just learning about Winchester firearms collecting & the focus/purpose of WACA.

I personally wish the Winchester name had stopped in Dec 1980 and was preserved, but…

 RickC 

   

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January 27, 2024 - 4:54 pm
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I think the Winchester name has value today, as evidenced by numerous licensed offerings. The current licensee supports our hobby directly and indirectly. New shooters are able to buy a new rifle appropriate for their needs and as a result some are attracted to the older items we collect. As a rule commercial entities, even one with a name as old as Winchester, must change with the times to survive. As collectors we have the luxury of focusing on the old guns we love. 
When I started collecting old Winchesters I was fortunate to have a comprehensive reloading and casting operation on the premises. I only needed to add to my tool selection and hunt down some brass. I haven’t participated in an ammunition shortage since my first one probably almost forty years ago. If I need ammunition I make it. You can’t buy points and condenser for a 65 Mustang at the Ford dealership, I won’t waste my time waiting for Winchester to supply ammo for my 32-40.

 

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January 27, 2024 - 5:30 pm
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The whole ammunition topic generally moves in the wrong direction.  Both from an availability as well as an expense factor.  It is true that some ammunition is obsolete and I need to make it myself.  But other ammo – .30/40, .35 Remington, .32 Special – not obsolete and not unavailable, but the cost Yell

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January 28, 2024 - 1:42 pm
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TXGunNut said
I think the Winchester name has value today, as evidenced by numerous licensed offerings. The current licensee supports our hobby directly and indirectly. New shooters are able to buy a new rifle appropriate for their needs and as a result some are attracted to the older items we collect. As a rule commercial entities, even one with a name as old as Winchester, must change with the times to survive. As collectors we have the luxury of focusing on the old guns we love. 

  

Totally agree with this statement Mike.

 RickC 

   

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January 28, 2024 - 4:48 pm
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If I was buying Winchesters, or any other guns based on what ammo was available I would have only a very few guns. If you’re going to shoot old guns you’re going to have to reload. It isn’t hard.

 Last week I loaded .43 Spanish, 8 X 60R and 11 X 59 Gras. Something interesting to do in the winter…..

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January 28, 2024 - 5:46 pm
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Brooksy said
If I was buying Winchesters, or any other guns based on what ammo was available I would have only a very few guns. If you’re going to shoot old guns you’re going to have to reload. It isn’t hard.

 Last week I loaded .43 Spanish, 8 X 60R and 11 X 59 Gras. Something interesting to do in the winter…..

  

Me too – although I haven’t loaded a batch as recently as you.  I’m guessing your .43 is a single-shot?  Mine is a Remington-Keene bolt action tubular magazine repeater.  Come to think of it, in a recent order from Bear Creek Bullets, they sent me a sample pack of .43 bullets.  I’m guessing you have a mold for yours?

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January 28, 2024 - 6:04 pm
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steve004 said

Brooksy said

If I was buying Winchesters, or any other guns based on what ammo was available I would have only a very few guns. If you’re going to shoot old guns you’re going to have to reload. It isn’t hard.

 Last week I loaded .43 Spanish, 8 X 60R and 11 X 59 Gras. Something interesting to do in the winter…..

  

Me too – although I haven’t loaded a batch as recently as you.  I’m guessing your .43 is a single-shot?  Mine is a Remington-Keene bolt action tubular magazine repeater.  Come to think of it, in a recent order from Bear Creek Bullets, they sent me a sample pack of .43 bullets.  I’m guessing you have a mold for yours?

  

I recently bought a Peabody in .43 Spanish. It’s a very nifty gun for 1870.  As usual I’ve been buying dies brass and bullet molds long before I found the gun.Wink The gun went to France for the Franco-Prussian war and now has German property stamps on it. It looks brand new, inside and out except for some dents in the stock. 100% case colors and blue with a like new bore.

I’m using two molds , one a RCBS flat nose the weighs right at 400gr in 30-1 and just got a round nose Lyman mold that goes around 390gr or so. I haven’t shot it yet. I think the RCBS is going to be the better bullet as it carries far more lube when I shoot black powder. I found a recipe for 5744….I think I’m using 22.5gr to start out.

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January 28, 2024 - 6:05 pm
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I ought to go out and shoot that gun today! But I think I’m supposed to make my world famous burritos instead….Wink

BTW, I’d love to own  a Remington Keen in .43 Spanish……the hunt is now officially on!

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January 28, 2024 - 7:03 pm
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Brooksy saidI recently bought a Peabody in .43 Spanish. It’s a very nifty gun for 1870.  As usual I’ve been buying dies brass and bullet molds long before I found the gun.Wink The gun went to France for the Franco-Prussian war and now has German property stamps on it. It looks brand new, inside and out except for some dents in the stock. 100% case colors and blue with a like new bore.

VERY nifty!  Beats the hell out of the .43 Argentine Rolling Block I bought for about 10 bucks when I was in high school.  Looked “like new” to me, but all had been arsenal reblued before importation.  One reason they were priced this low, even for the early ’60s–absolutely no ammo available.  Also bought about the same time a Gras & a ’71 Mauser, but neither for them or most of the other foreign military rifles then being advertised in the Rifleman were ammo or cases available.  Reloading obsolete ammo much easier now than 50-60 yrs ago. 

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January 29, 2024 - 12:50 am
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Brooksy said
I ought to go out and shoot that gun today! But I think I’m supposed to make my world famous burritos instead….Wink

BTW, I’d love to own  a Remington Keen in .43 Spanish……the hunt is now officially on!

  

You don’t see them everyday.  But that’s the fun of the hunt!

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