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March 22, 2022
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Hi all. First time poster here with a laundry list questions about a new rifle. A few days ago I picked up an 1886 in 45-90. It was a custom order for Boss & Co. circa 1896. From what I understand it was (most likely) sold for hunting in Africa or India. It’s a bit rough, but the wood isn’t loose and doesn’t have any cracks, the bore is decent (~6-7/10), and it appears to be all original. I bought it to be a shooter, and hopefully one I could find an elk with next year.
Question 1: I cannot find any 45-90(Win) resizing dies. Will neck sizing be sufficient? I have 45-70 dies to flare the case and seat the bullet.
Question 2: I’d like to add a tang sight but I’m concerned it would interfere with the bolt. Is this an issue? Are there any recommendations y’all would make?
Question 3: The forend cap has a sling mount. Is it strong enough to used or would I be better served with a sling around the barrel? It threads in and out fine and appears to be in good shape, but I don’t want to find out it’s not strong enough by breaking it.
Question 4: Would a factory letter possibly give more information than the show search form? If not, is there still a reason to get a letter to go with the form?
Question 5: Does anyone know how to contact Boss & Co to get the ledger info? I sent an email to [email protected] but I’m not sure if there’s a better way.
I appreciate the replies and look forward to reading them!
Pictures: https://photobucket.com/share/8c47302d-ffaf-4733-9375-4c18ef3926ba
June 26, 2013
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Yours looks like a brother to mine–also in 45-90. It has British proofs and is in the same configuration. It has a Lyman tang sight as well. Is your serial number close to mine?
Don
March 22, 2022
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deerhunter said
Yours looks like a brother to mine–also in 45-90. It has British proofs and is in the same configuration. It has a Lyman tang sight as well. Is your serial number close to mine?
Don
Mine is SN 110325. The only noticable difference besides the Boss & Co. markings is the sling mount on mine is on the actual cap instead of the top of the mag. Do you know if the proof marks are from London? Does the barrel have proof marks as well?
You may’ve already seen the article from Wesley Richards about their Boss & Co. 1886 (linked below), but their rifle is one digit away in the Boss ledgers. Mine is 4540 and their’s is 4541. It’s serial number is 110455 and was imported in 1897. While closer to mine, I think that’s still too far away (130 serial numbers) to be the same order.
I’ve tried to do as much research as I could and I did find a couple with the same or extremely similar configurations. 1886s with British proof marks, round barrel, button mag, shotgun butt, express sights, in either 45-90 or 50-110. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was a (relatively) common custom order offering for the British market around that time. It was the height of their empire and colonial exploration/ hunting was popular. Maybe if you couldn’t afford a bespoke true custom rifle, this was a viable option for your adventure. I wouldn’t want to face an elephant or rhino with one of these, but a leopard, or lion, or cape buffalo? Maybe. 3 outta the big 5 ain’t bad!
https://www.westleyrichards.com/us/theexplora/a-winchester-model-1886-for-boss-co/
October 29, 2011
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Hi–To find dies do a search on EBAY and Gun Broker and then save it, you will get notified when they are available. The proper Lyman tang sight would have an N on the Base. In the mean time We could supply you with 45-90-300 grain lead. call or email [email protected] or 575 779 2188–Thanks Bill
December 13, 2006
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Be advised the rifling twist in the standard Winchester Model 1886 45-90 is 1:32”.
This was to stabilize the lighter, 300 grain lead bullet.
The 45-70 chambering, in this same rifle was, I believe 1:22” to stabilize the heavier 405 and 500 grain bullets.
Also, I load my 45-90 ammo with standard 45-70 dies . . . .NO Problems.
March 22, 2022
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Jim F in CT said
Be advised the rifling twist in the standard Winchester Model 1886 45-90 is 1:32”.
This was to stabilize the lighter, 300 grain lead bullet.
The 45-70 chambering, in this same rifle was, I believe 1:22” to stabilize the heavier 405 and 500 grain bullets.
Also, I load my 45-90 ammo with standard 45-70 dies . . . .NO Problems.
10-4. I have some 300 grainers on the way but they’re .458 and based off the slug I got from the bore I might need .459s. Gonna shoot a couple test groups when everything comes in and go from there
January 20, 2023
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Unless I’m missing something in this thread I should have read more closely, perhaps this will help: new die sets for the 45-90 WCF are available, made by Redding and Lyman and possibly RCBS.
I just checked MidwayUsa and the Redding dies are in stock. Be careful because dies for the 45-90 Sharps Straight are also in stock.
I hope this helps.
PS For other prospective 45-90 fans and reloaders who might be interested, the new 1886 Winchesters made by Miroku for Browning are rifled 1:22, not the slower “Express” rate of twist. And they should shoot 300 grain bullets well, despite being “overstabilized”. I base this on having run 300 grain bullets through an earlier Browning 1886 45-70, which had the 1:22 twist standard for the caliber.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 31, 2009
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said
Hi all. First time poster here with a laundry list questions about a new rifle. A few days ago I picked up an 1886 in 45-90. It was a custom order for Boss & Co. circa 1896. From what I understand it was (most likely) sold for hunting in Africa or India. It’s a bit rough, but the wood isn’t loose and doesn’t have any cracks, the bore is decent (~6-7/10), and it appears to be all original. I bought it to be a shooter, and hopefully one I could find an elk with next year.
Question 1: I cannot find any 45-90(Win) resizing dies. Will neck sizing be sufficient? I have 45-70 dies to flare the case and seat the bullet.
Question 2: I’d like to add a tang sight but I’m concerned it would interfere with the bolt. Is this an issue? Are there any recommendations y’all would make?
Question 3: The forend cap has a sling mount. Is it strong enough to used or would I be better served with a sling around the barrel? It threads in and out fine and appears to be in good shape, but I don’t want to find out it’s not strong enough by breaking it.
Question 4: Would a factory letter possibly give more information than the show search form? If not, is there still a reason to get a letter to go with the form?
Question 5: Does anyone know how to contact Boss & Co to get the ledger info? I sent an email to [email protected] but I’m not sure if there’s a better way.
I appreciate the replies and look forward to reading them!
Pictures: https://photobucket.com/share/8c47302d-ffaf-4733-9375-4c18ef3926ba
Post more pics. At least 1 of the front sling mount and the one on the butt stock.
The Win 45-90 and the Sharps 45-4/10″ use the same dies. The rim thickness of the cases is what is different.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-90-winchester-45×2-4-shar-rcb19304.html
March 22, 2022
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Zebulon said
I just checked MidwayUsa and the Redding dies are in stock. Be careful because dies for the 45-90 Sharps Straight are also in stock.
I appreciate the heads up about them being in stock on Midway. I was only finding Sharps dies when doing my searching
November 7, 2015
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I would try using your 45-70 dies for your 45-90 cases, in my rifles the cases only need neck sizing and some dies undersize the brass too much anyway. Cases that have been fired in rifles with oversize chambers may need full-length resizing. Remember you only need the case neck a thousandth or so smaller than your bullet. I actually use a universal Lyman 45 neck sizer, flare tool and crimp die for both cartridges because I wasn’t happy with my 45-70 dies. Proper neck in tension and a moderate crimp should keep your bullet in place when cycled through your action.
Mike
March 22, 2022
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Chuck said
Post more pics. At least 1 of the front sling mount and the one on the butt stock.
Updated pictures:
https://photobucket.com/share/7ca02de2-6d8f-4479-9b3f-efd4bdd0c17c
March 31, 2009
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said
Chuck said
Post more pics. At least 1 of the front sling mount and the one on the butt stock.
Updated pictures:
https://photobucket.com/share/7ca02de2-6d8f-4479-9b3f-efd4bdd0c17c
The bottom of the butt stock should have a sling eye too.
November 19, 2006
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You mention the bore is a 6 to 7. This might be an issue in finding bullets that will perform adequately. My .45-90 does not have a great bore. My initial testing was very disappointing. I was using 300 grain lead bullets and to get all bullets on a standard target at 25 yards wasn’t happening. I switched to 300 grain jacketed bullets and quickly obtained 2 inch groups at 50 yards.
Many of us have found that these old Winchesters with rougher bores prefer jacketed bullets. My preference is to shoot lead bullets, but I’ll yield to what my rifles wants to shoot.
June 26, 2013
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said
deerhunter said
Yours looks like a brother to mine–also in 45-90. It has British proofs and is in the same configuration. It has a Lyman tang sight as well. Is your serial number close to mine?
Don
Mine is SN 110325. The only noticable difference besides the Boss & Co. markings is the sling mount on mine is on the actual cap instead of the top of the mag. Do you know if the proof marks are from London? Does the barrel have proof marks as well?
You may’ve already seen the article from Wesley Richards about their Boss & Co. 1886 (linked below), but their rifle is one digit away in the Boss ledgers. Mine is 4540 and their’s is 4541. It’s serial number is 110455 and was imported in 1897. While closer to mine, I think that’s still too far away (130 serial numbers) to be the same order.
I’ve tried to do as much research as I could and I did find a couple with the same or extremely similar configurations. 1886s with British proof marks, round barrel, button mag, shotgun butt, express sights, in either 45-90 or 50-110. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was a (relatively) common custom order offering for the British market around that time. It was the height of their empire and colonial exploration/ hunting was popular. Maybe if you couldn’t afford a bespoke true custom rifle, this was a viable option for your adventure. I wouldn’t want to face an elephant or rhino with one of these, but a leopard, or lion, or cape buffalo? Maybe. 3 outta the big 5 ain’t bad!
https://www.westleyrichards.com/us/theexplora/a-winchester-model-1886-for-boss-co/
I believe they are London proofs on my rifle. They are located on the barrel and the receiver. Here are some additional photos.
Don
March 31, 2009
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Highly likely that they are London/English proof marks. Someone will have exact answer for each of them. The front sight and the tang sight was added after it left the factory. These are nice additions. The front and rear sling eyes are not as manufactured. I’ve not seen a front sling eye mounted on the front like that. Any that I can remember were on the bottom.
June 26, 2013
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Chuck said
Highly likely that they are London/English proof marks. Someone will have exact answer for each of them. The front sight and the tang sight was added after it left the factory. These are nice additions. The front and rear sling eyes are not as manufactured. I’ve not seen a front sling eye mounted on the front like that. Any that I can remember were on the bottom.
I agree the front sight and tang sight were swapped/added after the rifle left the factory. I too, have never seen another sling swivel attached to the end of magazine tube like this one. It is very tastefully done and pretty unique, but definitely not done by Winchester. Thinking those may have been added by an English gunsmith back in the day??
Don
March 22, 2022
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Chuck said
said
Chuck said
Post more pics. At least 1 of the front sling mount and the one on the butt stock.
Updated pictures:
https://photobucket.com/share/7ca02de2-6d8f-4479-9b3f-efd4bdd0c17c
The bottom of the butt stock should have a sling eye too.
The eye is gone but there’s a hole where one should thread in. I’ll probably leave it that way since I plan on making a sling that wraps around the butt
March 22, 2022
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Don, those look like Birmingham proof marks to me. Take that with a few large grains of salt however as I am by no means an expert. Regardless, very cool rifle.
March 22, 2022
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I got an email back from Boss & Co and they confirmed my rifle was not a customer custom order. Instead it was one of 50 ordered by Boss for retail sale. They didn’t specify if all 50 were ordered at the same time or not, but I suspect not. This all but confirms my suspicion that these British proofed 1886’s that came in the same configuration from the factory were a (relatively) common offering for Winchester dealers in Britain.
Again, I am by no means an expert so if you are and would like to chime in I would love to learn more
