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Congratulations! Nice.
Who or what is “S.H. Company”? Is that “Shipping and Handling Company”, or a wholesaler or retailer or customer? Any idea why it was returned and re-shipped?
Just trying to further my education about letters.
Huck Riley said
Congratulations! Nice.Who or what is “S.H. Company”? Is that “Shipping and Handling Company”, or a wholesaler or retailer or customer? Any idea why it was returned and re-shipped?
Just trying to further my education about letters.
I may have been returned for a repair.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
November 7, 2015
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Very nice, Kirk. Santa Claus is alive and well!
Mike
Huck Riley said
Congratulations! Nice.Who or what is “S.H. Company”? Is that “Shipping and Handling Company”, or a wholesaler or retailer or customer? Any idea why it was returned and re-shipped?
Just trying to further my education about letters.
I don’t know if the ledger is wrong or the archivist was drunk and didn’t copy the dates right, but it says it was received in the warehouse after is was shipped. That is hard to do, besides getting it back and then reshipping…
November 7, 2015
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Now that you mention it, none of the dates make much sense. I’d have the current Cody crew take another look at it.
Mike
I don’t know what their in-house protocols are, but if a gun has been researched before, they may just copy the letter (change name and address and date) and send it. I’d send them a copy of the old letter and ask they revisit it from scratch. After all, if there was a mistake, you’d want the straight scoop.
Another question would be, is there any value to a bad letter? Misprinted coins and such can have a value. Have Cody Letters risen to a level of value such that a bad one would have it’s own unique interest?
Just curious.
As far as I know, if a gun has already been researched, they do not simply copy the previous letter. According to John Hawk, who did research for many years, all serial numbers were checked individually as per each customers request. Cody would have a hard time explaining the cost of a letter, if all they did was copy the info from a previous look-up. I agree that something is strange about the dates on this particular gun, but I also know the ledgers are not always correct and more often than not, very hard to decipher.
November 7, 2015
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I believe they will take a fresh look, I doubt they have any record of previous searches. Jesi researched two very interesting rifles we discussed a little over a year ago on this forum while she was at a local show. She made a point of NOT looking at the old letter. She said she had never seen ledger entries with so much info.
Mike
Hmmm…
First, Waddy Colvert was known for making mistakes in his interpretation of the factory ledgers. I have seen a fair number the factory letters with his signature on them that were not completely accurate (interpretation errors). He would get cranky when I called asking him to carefully recheck the ledger entries (on several of my Model 1885 letters).
Based on the PR records, the serial number was applied sometime in May/June of 1890. The “Received in warehouse date” of August 12, 1890 is most likely correct, and in my opinion, it should have been listed before the “Reshipped” date. I suspect that the “Shipped from warehouse” date should be “January 19, 1891“. The other entries while being a bit unusual, make sense to me.
The letter should have been formatted as follows;
Carbine
45-70
Received in warehouse on August 12, 1890
Shipped from warehouse on January 19, 1890, order number 24570
Returned by S.H. Company June 22, 1893
Reshipped August 7, 1894 #18398
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Carbine
45-70
Received in warehouse on August 12, 1890
Shipped from warehouse on January 19, 1890, order number 24570
Returned by S.H. Company June 22, 1893
Reshipped August 7, 1894 #18398
Bert
I’d do:
Carbine
45-70
Received in warehouse on January 19, 1890
Shipped from warehouse on August 12, 1890, order number 24570
Returned by S.H. Company June 22, 1893
Reshipped August 7, 1894 #18398
Huck,
You must have missed this…
Based on the PR records, the serial number was applied sometime in May/June of 1890.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Huck,You must have missed this…
Based on the PR records, the serial number was applied sometime in May/June of 1890.
I did! 
But I guess I need educated on how they ship from the warehouse in January but don’t receive it in the warehouse until August. I see your explanation referenced 1891 but the proposed letter still uses 1890.
Huck Riley said
Bert H. said
Huck,You must have missed this…
Based on the PR records, the serial number was applied sometime in May/June of 1890.
I did!
You must have also missed where I stated the following…
I suspect that the “Shipped from warehouse” date should be “January 19, 1891“.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
You must have also missed where I stated the following…
I suspect that the “Shipped from warehouse” date should be “January 19, 1891“.
Bert
You must have missed where I said: “I see your explanation referenced 1891 but the proposed letter still uses 1890.”
I did not miss where you said:
“The letter should have been formatted as follows;
Carbine
45-70
Received in warehouse on August 12, 1890
Shipped from warehouse on January 19, 1890, order number 24570
Returned by S.H. Company June 22, 1893
Reshipped August 7, 1894 #18398
Bert”
November 7, 2015
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PR records help point out likely mistakes in the first two dates but we still have a repair that takes over a year? Will be interested in what the ledger actually says, I’m thinking one or two dates may be correct.
Mike
TXGunNut said
PR records help point out likely mistakes in the first two dates but we still have a repair that takes over a year? Will be interested in what the ledger actually says, I’m thinking one or two dates may be correct.
Mike
Mike,
Based on what I am seeing in the original CFM letter, there was not a “repair”. The gun was simply returned, and Winchester put it back in their inventory. The same thing happened and is found in the Model 1885 records. Thus far, I have found nearly 200 returned Model 1885 rifles (from various retailers).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Geez that ’95 was sitting on the shelf for a while huh. I am surprised He had to get permission to sell it at less than retail. You are right about these “letters” being interesting though.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
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