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September 30, 2021
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Can anyone shed light on the anomaly with the Model 1903 with no safety? I have one with a 4 digit #, made in 1903, with no button safety at the rear of the trigger guard. My other 1903’s are manufactured from 1904, on, and have the safety. I thought that the first year perhaps were not equipped with a safety, until I spotted one with a 3 digit #, definitely 1903 – but it has the button safety. Ideas…
November 19, 2006
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I’ve read the first 5000 were made without a safety. I’ve also read it was the first year production rifles didn’t have a safety. I don’t believe everything I read but I believe there were many early rifles that didn’t have a safety.
Do you know if the rifle in question has a bronze firing pin?
December 21, 2006
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Bob; I don’t know about the 1903 specifically but, most other models what occurs is sometimes an earlier ser# gun will be assembled way after a later #’d gun. I guess when they made and #’d receivers they went in to a bin and got picked out at random, it is not unusual to see 2-3 years or more discrepancy in the ser# application dates vs. assembly/ shipping dates, EG. ser#10,000 may be shipped 2-3 years before ser#4,000 etc.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
December 9, 2002
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Bob,
I wish I had an answer for the four digit serial number 03 rifle with the button safety on it. Maybe it was sent back to Winchester. According to Bert Hartman, in his Red Book, 4th edition, he states that you can send to The Cody Firearms Museum, for information and verify it from, #1-#39999. If nothing else maybe a phone call to Jessica, and possibly the information on the rifle in question can be verified if it was returned to the factory or not. It won’t say what was done to it, in all likely hood, but if it was returned, I would guess that’s what it was returned for.
This information was in my older notes on the Winchester model 1903. Mostly gathered over the years from fellow older collectors, as the information is approximate, and could stand to be verified and updated.
Total mfg. approximately 126,211, from 1903-1932, and being Winchesters first semi-auto .22 caliber rifle, using the .22 automatic ammunition only.
The model 1903, without the safety, on the top of the trigger guard, extending through to both the right and left side, was up to the serial number #5000, as Steve has stated.
Serial numbers #1-8441, mfg. in 1903. Therefore the information, assuming that the, “No Safety”, model 1903 was on the first models mfg. in 1903, until #5000.
Any discrepancies or updated information, is appreciated. It’s always been a little hard to find information on these. IMO!
Steve, I wish I knew more about the firing pin.
Anthony
November 19, 2006
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Anthony –
Here’s some information on the firing pin. Apparently they were using the bronze one well after the first 5000 rifles:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-22-rim-fire/m1903-bronze-firing-pins/
December 9, 2002
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Thanks Steve,
I’ve added some more info. to my notes, and will try to verify as time permits, and more information develops and becomes available.
Anthony
December 31, 2012
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I have a nice M1903, # 8493, shipped 1-5-1904 that has the safety, and according to JWA, who looked it over, I was told to be careful shooting it as it has the bronze firing pin. Therefore, I do not shoot it, although I have a brick of ammo. Big Larry
September 30, 2021
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Responding to a couple questions: My 4 digit (27**) does not have a bronze firing pin. The 3 digit, I don’t know (currently on GB). I have also read that the first year mfg. had no safety – and this seems to hold up as several 1904-05 mfr. I’ve seen did have the safety. A 3 digit # would/should definitely be first year…?? I was also under the impression that Winchester stamped an “A” after the ser. # on guns returned for repair or alteration – the 3 digit does not have the “A”. Perhaps this was not a consistent practice.
A closer examination of the photos seems to show a discrepancy – bluing is pretty much gone, except for the trigger which is a deep blue. Also, the safety button is knurled, which the early safeties were not. I was tempted to bid, but it’s overpriced for condition and the safety issue. Looks like someone used a pipe wrench to try to remove the barrel! So sad…
Thanks to all for your input.
April 15, 2005
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Bob Hood said
Responding to a couple questions: My 4 digit (27**) does not have a bronze firing pin. The 3 digit, I don’t know (currently on GB). I have also read that the first year mfg. had no safety – and this seems to hold up as several 1904-05 mfr. I’ve seen did have the safety. A 3 digit # would/should definitely be first year…?? I was also under the impression that Winchester stamped an “A” after the ser. # on guns returned for repair or alteration – the 3 digit does not have the “A”. Perhaps this was not a consistent practice.
A closer examination of the photos seems to show a discrepancy – bluing is pretty much gone, except for the trigger which is a deep blue. Also, the safety button is knurled, which the early safeties were not. I was tempted to bid, but it’s overpriced for condition and the safety issue. Looks like someone used a pipe wrench to try to remove the barrel! So sad…
Thanks to all for your input.
Bob,
To the best of my knowledge, Winchester did not stamp anything on any the thousands of guns returned for repair or rework with the exception of proof markings if a barrel was replaced.
The “A” suffix found on the end of the serial number was specifically used to designate a mechanical design change to the receiver group that was incorporated during the production run. The “A” suffix should not be found on any of the early production receiver frames. I do not now specifically when Winchester made the design change and first began using the “A” suffix, but my brother Jeff (JWA) may know that answer.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 12, 2013
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Bert H. said
Bob Hood said
Responding to a couple questions: My 4 digit (27**) does not have a bronze firing pin. The 3 digit, I don’t know (currently on GB). I have also read that the first year mfg. had no safety – and this seems to hold up as several 1904-05 mfr. I’ve seen did have the safety. A 3 digit # would/should definitely be first year…?? I was also under the impression that Winchester stamped an “A” after the ser. # on guns returned for repair or alteration – the 3 digit does not have the “A”. Perhaps this was not a consistent practice.
A closer examination of the photos seems to show a discrepancy – bluing is pretty much gone, except for the trigger which is a deep blue. Also, the safety button is knurled, which the early safeties were not. I was tempted to bid, but it’s overpriced for condition and the safety issue. Looks like someone used a pipe wrench to try to remove the barrel! So sad…
Thanks to all for your input.
Bob,
To the best of my knowledge, Winchester did not stamp anything on any the thousands of guns returned for repair or rework with the exception of proof markings if a barrel was replaced.
The “A” suffix found on the end of the serial number was specifically used to designate a mechanical design change to the receiver group that was incorporated during the production run. The “A” suffix should not be found on any of the early production receiver frames. I do not now specifically when Winchester made the design change and first began using the “A” suffix, but my brother Jeff (JWA) may know that answer.
Bert
Didn’t Winchester stamp the side of tang “REFINISH” under butt stock on some of their lever guns?
April 15, 2005
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antler1 said
Bert H. said
Bob Hood said
Responding to a couple questions: My 4 digit (27**) does not have a bronze firing pin. The 3 digit, I don’t know (currently on GB). I have also read that the first year mfg. had no safety – and this seems to hold up as several 1904-05 mfr. I’ve seen did have the safety. A 3 digit # would/should definitely be first year…?? I was also under the impression that Winchester stamped an “A” after the ser. # on guns returned for repair or alteration – the 3 digit does not have the “A”. Perhaps this was not a consistent practice.
A closer examination of the photos seems to show a discrepancy – bluing is pretty much gone, except for the trigger which is a deep blue. Also, the safety button is knurled, which the early safeties were not. I was tempted to bid, but it’s overpriced for condition and the safety issue. Looks like someone used a pipe wrench to try to remove the barrel! So sad…
Thanks to all for your input.
Bob,
To the best of my knowledge, Winchester did not stamp anything on any the thousands of guns returned for repair or rework with the exception of proof markings if a barrel was replaced.
The “A” suffix found on the end of the serial number was specifically used to designate a mechanical design change to the receiver group that was incorporated during the production run. The “A” suffix should not be found on any of the early production receiver frames. I do not now specifically when Winchester made the design change and first began using the “A” suffix, but my brother Jeff (JWA) may know that answer.
Bert
Didn’t Winchester stamp the side of tang “REFINISH” under butt stock on some of their lever guns?
Pat,
Yes, but that is in a non-visible location unless you disassemble the gun. I suppose that I should have been clearer with my previous reply and stated that Winchester did not stamp anything on the exterior surfaces. Winchester did stamp “REFINISHED” on the bottom of the small number of the barrels that were reworked (along with the work order #), or on the inside (unexposed) edge of the receiver tangs, but that practice appears to have been dropped post WW I.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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