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Model 1892 in 25-20 rebarrel project
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MCorrell
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April 8, 2026 - 8:39 pm
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I have finally decided to upgrade/ improve my favorite shooter. The current 24” barrel is at best in fair condition but is very accurate using jacketed Remington .257”, 86 grain bullets that are currently out of production. I have tried many loads using .258”, 85 grain cast bullets and cannot get near the same accuracy as with the Remington bullets. 
I am looking at a Hunter brand replacement barrel but there are many options:

 5 or 6 groove rifling

single point or broached rifling

barrel length (would it help accuracy at 100 yards to longer than 24”?)

rate of twist

Does as anyone have experience with cast bullets with the above options? I would like to choose the best option for exclusively shooting cast bullets.

https://www.mikehunterrestorations.com/barrels.html

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Chuck
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April 9, 2026 - 3:38 pm
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Mike Hunter is a long time WACA member and is very capable. 

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TXGunNut
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April 10, 2026 - 1:48 pm
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If you’re set on a replacement barrel I’d go with one as close to original specs as possible. Which cast bullet are you using? I’m not sure you’d get any benefit from single point rifling but that’s a question I’d run past Mr. Hunter. 

 

Mike

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MCorrell
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April 10, 2026 - 10:00 pm
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TXGunNut said
If you’re set on a replacement barrel I’d go with one as close to original specs as possible. Which cast bullet are you using? I’m not sure you’d get any benefit from single point rifling but that’s a question I’d run past Mr. Hunter. 
 
Mike
  

Hi Mike, I am leaning towards the factory standards which include single point rifling. I have been using Meister bullets with .258 dia and 86 grain weight but now hear they are no longer available. I may start casting my own so that I’ll always have a steady supply. There’s not much written about the 25-20

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TXGunNut
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April 11, 2026 - 2:39 am
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MCorrell said

TXGunNut said
If you’re set on a replacement barrel I’d go with one as close to original specs as possible. Which cast bullet are you using? I’m not sure you’d get any benefit from single point rifling but that’s a question I’d run past Mr. Hunter. 
 
Mike
  

Hi Mike, I am leaning towards the factory standards which include single point rifling. I have been using Meister bullets with .258 dia and 86 grain weight but now hear they are no longer available. I may start casting my own so that I’ll always have a steady supply. There’s not much written about the 25-20
  

I have a ball with my 32WCF but was not able to find a 25-20 with a decent bore. I understand that’s pretty common. There are some good commercial cast bullets out there but casting may ensure a good supply once you find a bullet that works for you. Sounds like an interesting project. Please keep us posted.

 

Mike

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MCorrell
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April 11, 2026 - 8:30 pm
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My goal is to build what I can’t buy, a nice half octagon barrel model 1892 with a good shoot able bore. Since I have to go the new barrel route I might as well go with CCH of my existing action and components and eventually new wood. This will be a lifetime gun for sure.

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TXGunNut
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April 11, 2026 - 10:53 pm
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I like the way you think. I bought an 1892 in 32WCF awhile back and quite honestly it was a mistake. I doubled down and had it relined, put a Marble tang sight and Lyman 17 front sight on it and it became quite the shooter. 

 

Mike

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Pete Hynard
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April 12, 2026 - 6:38 pm
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I like the way you guys think too.

I have two centrefire Model ’73s.  One started life as a .38-40 that had a replacement barrel put on it a hundred years ago, maybe more.  The replacement was a Marlin .38-55 barrel that had the chamber cut off, re-threaded to fit the ’73 receiver and re-chambered to .38-40 calibre.  My wife bought if for me years ago.  I love that gun.  The barrel marking still says .38-55.
 
The bore was a little rough so I tried it with jacketed bullets.  It wasn’t a great group and the barrel got much hotter than is normal for a ’73.  Turns out, the bore slugged out at 0.381” and .38-40 bullets are 0.400”.  No wonder it got hot.  It goes to show you that the ’73 action is stronger than you think.
 
It couldn’t stay like that.  I had the barrel re-bored and re-rifled to .44-40.  Now it has a perfect bore and shoots like an ace.  It’s my favourite deer rifle.  I attached a target for you to see.
 
The other ‘73 began life as a .32-20.  I bought it as a shooter but it had a rough bore too.  My plan had been to re-line it but my gunsmith suggested swapping the barrel with one he had on hand.  The replacement was a Marlin .25-36 with a perfect bore, off a Marlin Model 1893.  Like my deer rifle, my gunsmith Steve cut the chamber off, re-threaded the barrel and re-chambered it to .25-20.  Now both rifles have old, beat-up octagon Marlin barrels and button magazines.  They’re a matched set.  I attached a pic.
 
I know what you’re thinking.  The .25-20 has a twist rate of 1:14 and the .25-36 is 1:8.  An 85-grain cast bullet comes out spinning twice as fast as it should.  “Don’t worry”, Steve said.  “It’s OK to spin them too fast, just don’t spin them too slow.”
 
You can read the whole story in an upcoming Winchester Collector magazine.  I think Brad has it planned for the next issue.
 
Pete Hynard, Ontario, Canada
 
The-matched-set-1.png1.8-inch-group-100-yards.jpeg
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MCorrell
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April 13, 2026 - 1:38 pm
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Thanks Pete. I’ll be looking for the whole story.  I’ll be sure to keep good notes on my project as it moves on.

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Pete Hynard
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April 14, 2026 - 3:48 pm
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Mark, when you started this thread, you asked about experience shooting cast bullets in the .25-20.

Besides the Model ’73 I told you about, I have a Model 1892 in .25-20.  All I shoot in it is cast bullets.  I can tell you what my experience has been.

First off, I have found the .25-20 to be a good calibre for cast bullets.  The smaller calibres have the reputation of being difficult to cast and load for, but I haven’t found that to be true of the .25-50.  Be sure your mould is in good condition, size your bullets 0.001” oversize, use a good lube and be sure to bell the case mouth slightly before seating.  Other than that, the normal rules apply.

Cast bullets need a good bore to shoot well and this is particularly true of the smaller calibres.  What I look for in a used gun is a bright, shiny bore with strong rifling and no visible pitting or wear.  You really want a bore that is near-perfect; otherwise, the bullet will leave a streak of lead on the rough spots and each bullet will leave a little more.  A lot of .25-20s date from the era of corrosive primers and rough bores are common.  If your rifle was made before 1920, it definitely used corrosive primers and it probably has a rough bore.  Rough bores canBore-view-1.jpgBullet-casting.jpeg shoot jacketed bullets OK, but not cast.

I attached a look down the bore of my Model ’92.  It was made in 1914.  It’s OK but it’s not perfect.  If your bore looks any worse than this, it probably won’t shoot cast bullets well.

.25-20s do best with low-velocity loads and this is especially true for cast bullets.  The original ammo shot an 86-grain lead bullet at 1,460 f.p.s. and that’s a good place to start.  The loading that I settled on is a plain-base 85-grain bullet over 7.0 grains of IMR 4227 for a velocity of 1,356 f.p.s.  The alloy I use is wheel-weight metal and the mould is RCBS #25-85-CM.  With a hard alloy like that and slow velocity, the bullets pass through small game with minimal meat damage.  For target shooting, it’s mild and gentle to shoot.  In my rifle, group size is ½ inch at 25 yards and 3 inches at 100 yards.  

For anything faster than 1,500 f.p.s., you’ll need a gas-check bullet and a harder alloy.  I’ve tried a 65-grain GC bullet, Lyman No. 2 alloy and 10.5 grains of IMR 4227 for a velocity of 1,950 f.p.s.  Accuracy stayed good at 3 inches @ 100 yards.  But if you’re after varmints, you really need a proper varmint bullet, not a hard-alloy casting.

You asked about rate-of-twist.  Winchester made its Model ’92/.25-20 barrels with a 1:14 twist.  That’s what mine has.  

The Greenhill Formula is the standard method for determining optimal rate-of-twist. The link down below will take you to the vCalc.com website where you can do the calculation yourself.  You will need to know the diameter, length, specific gravity and speed of the bullet to do the math.  I attached a pic of my 85-grain cast bullet.  For it, the calculation worked out to 1:15.  As my gunsmith Steve said, “It’s OK to spin them too fast, just don’t spin them too slow”.

If you’re getting a custom barrel made, talk to your barrel maker.  He will know more about this than me and he will give you better advice.

Good luck.  Let me know how things work out.

Pete

https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/AndrewBudd/Greenhill+Formula+for+Optimal+Rifling+Twist+Rate 

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MCorrell
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April 21, 2026 - 9:01 pm
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Hi Pete, thanks for the info and bore pic. The bore on mine isn’t as nice as yours but isn’t too bad. The groove diameter is .258 inch.

 

Going through my reloading notes, I had the best grouping by far using the Remington 86 grain JSP  bullets of .258 inch diameter over 8 grains of IMR 4227 powder with an average velocity of 1324 FPS and average 50 yard groupings of .42 inches. This was on the bench with a tang peep sight. 

My best results with cast bullets was Meister 85 grain plain base bullet of .258 inch diameter with 7 grains of IMR 4227 powder. This gave an average velocity of 1138 FPS and 1.36 average 50 yard groupings. 

My goal has been to find a cast load that matches the JSP accuracy, but, so far no luck.  If I try to push the cast bullets closer to 1300 FPS the groupings open up to 5 to 6 inches with some keyholes appearing. 

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Pete Hynard
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April 23, 2026 - 6:47 pm
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Mark, those are exceptional groups you’re getting with the Remington 86-grain JSP bullet.  My compliments.  There’s nothing wrong with your shooting.

In my own experience, I have never found a cast bullet load that can quite equal a jacketed bullet in accuracy.  It is the holy grail.  But if your cast bullets aren’t even getting close, something is wrong.  If you’re getting keyholing, something is definitely wrong.
 
You say that your bore measures 0.258” and the Meister bullets you’re using measure 0.258” as well.  One option is to try a larger-sized bullet.  Cast bullets are known to give their best accuracy when sized 0.001” or even 0.002” over bore size.  The idea is to give a tight bore seal but still allow the loaded cartridge to chamber.  That’s the reason for the 0.001”-0.002” range.  Anything smaller will allow gas cutting and anything larger won’t chamber.
 
I don’t think bullet alloy is the issue in this case.  Soft lead bullets can lead to leading but Meister advertises their bullets as “hard cast”.  I have no doubt this is true.
 
The keyholing you described makes me think bore condition is the problem.  Cast bullets like a near-perfect bore.  Can you send a bore pic of your rifle?  To take the photo I posted, I placed a piece of paper inside the open action, shone a flashlight on the paper and pointed my camera down the muzzle.  I used a Canon point-and-shoot, which is not designed for this sort of thing.  I had to try different angles and distances back before I got anything I could post.  My wife was holding the flashlight for me.  It almost drove her crazy.
 
If your bullets are keyholing, it means the rifling isn’t getting the grip it needs and the bullets aren’t getting the spin they need.  Bore leading can lead to this.  A cast bullet going down a rough bore will leave lead streaks behind and the next bullet will leave more.  In no time, the grooves fill with lead and the rifling loses its grip.  This is more likely to happen as the velocity increases.  The question for you is, are you getting leading from your faster loads?  When you scrub your bore after shooting, do you see lead streaking on the patch?
 
If bore condition is the problem, shooting a jacketed bullet might be the easiest and cheapest solution.  Hornady still makes a 60-grain JSP for the .25-50.
 
Replacing or re-lining the barrel will be costly and it might not give you what you want.  In my experience, I have never found a cast bullet that can quite equal a jacketed bullet in accuracy.  If you have other rifles with better bores, maybe this is the place to look for the holy grail.
 
Good luck.  Let me know how things turn out.
 
Pete
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April 24, 2026 - 12:15 am
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Thanks Pete. Here is a pic of my gun’s boreIMG_1810-1.jpeg

it is like this throughout. I wish I had a lifetime supply of the JSP Remington bullets. I found a box of 500 locally for 30 bucks a few years back not long after buying this gun at a local gunsmith. IIRC I have a sample of some coated .259 diameter, 85 grain coated bullets from Missouri Bullet to test when my local range reopens and my health returns.

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TXGunNut
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April 24, 2026 - 1:19 am
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Mark-

I think with that level of pitting cast bullets may be a challenge. As a rule a properly lubed and sized bullet will not lead a good bore. Sometimes a hard lead alloy will actually lead more than a softer bullet because the harder bullet will not obturate to fill and seal off the bore. Coated bullets are often soft and perform well in worn bores but I haven’t tried them. 

Have you cleaned the rifle yet? I’m curious about the type and level of fouling. 

 

Mike

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April 24, 2026 - 1:46 pm
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Mike, I use coated cast bullets almost exclusively these days with good results. When I bought this gun we were in the COVID mess and coated bullets for it weren’t available, so I bought lubed cast bullets and the Remington JSP as mentioned previously.

The bore was cleaned prior to shooting included 2 or 3 consecutive applications of Hoppe’s Elite foaming cleaner and then after every trip to the range since. It was very dirty and heavily lead fouled. I was surprised it came out as clean as it did. 

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Pete Hynard
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April 24, 2026 - 2:43 pm
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Nice work on the bore photo, Mark. 

As you said, the bore isn’t as good as mine but it’s not that bad.  As Mike said, even that level of pitting is enough to be a problem.  The fact that your cleaning patches show heavy lead fouling is proof of that.

The bore is certainly good enough to shoot jacketed bullets well but you already know that.

I don’t know what to suggest.  If the coated bullets are working well, maybe that’s the solution.

Pete

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