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This question is for Bert and other ’86 experts. While in Reno, Bert was patient enough to explain to me how collectors (including myself) frequently ascribe the light weight term to both .33 and .45-70 Model 86s. So I have to admit I had way too much bourbon, scotch and beer since then to remember exactly what he said. But my general recollection is that the .33 is the only true light weight Model 86 rifle. All other calibers had to be special ordered as such. That would seem to go against Madl’s publication indicating that both the .33 & .45-70 (later production of course) were standard light weight rifles. So can someone clarify for me?
Thanks – Greg
January 26, 2011
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Greg
Certainly no expert here, but I can offer my understanding of your topic. I believe the 1886’s that were truly catalogued and therefore letter as ELW were 45-70’s with the 22″ barrel. I happen to have a TD that letters as ELW in the aforementioned configuration. The ’86’s in 33 caliber are quite often called ELW or LW because a large number of them have some of the same characteristics such as 1/2 mag, lighter weight round barrel, although 24″ and shotgun butt. I think the 33’s were just listed by themselves and not necessarily lightweights (by catalog anyway).
~Gary~
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Greg,
Gary nailed it. Winchester never officially referred to the 33 Caliber Model 1886 rifles as “Lightweight”. That stated, the barrel contour for the 24″ 33 WCF is nearly identical to the 22″ Extra Lightweight 45-70 barrel. The term “Lightweight” as it applies to the Model 1886 was created by the collecting fraternity.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Last year at the Cody show there was a very excellent display of 1886s that had numerous ELW special order rifles in it. There were at least two rifles in the display which the factory letter listed as just “light weight”, not “extra light” or “extra light weight” as is listed in the letters for the other rifles in the display. They were 40-82 and 50-100-450 rifles with shotgun butts and button magazines and 24″ round barrels, among other special order options. I have copies here of every letter because I judged displays, like Bert. I realize these are not the same as the specific Extra Light Weight Model 1886 configuration that Winchester cataloged. Perhaps some of what collectors have come to call “light weights” also has some origins in the term apparently being used in the factory records.
Brad
Not to sure why anyone would call these”lightweights” I have a 86 takedown in .33, and it sure isn’t “light”
86 is a heavy gun
I think in 33 there was only one size barrel offered ?
I think it was the Pirkle book that gives the muzzle O.D. dimension , And calls this size both lightweight ,and extra lightweight
since I am a target shooter and don’t have to carry guns around I prefer the heaviest longest barrel possible,and consider the barrel on my 33 very light ,although it shoots well letting the barrel cool between shots My 86 , 33 has C.B. And full mag, so not in the most popular post 1900 configuration of SB and 1/2 mag
If the 45-70 has the same muzzle O.D. , It would be an even lighter barrel with the larger bore. better for carrying
Phil
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