Burt Humphrey said
The original question was “does a gun from a well known collector add value”? The answer from responding forum members has been a resounding “no”. Well, I do not disagree in principal but then then there is reality. I would not even be able to count the number of guns I have seen sold over the last 50 years by well known dealers/collectors which asked and received a price above what anyone else could ask and receive, because the tag on the gun at a gun show or the description of the gun in an advertisement said “from my personal collection”. This continues to be the case in this new world of auctions – you continually see the statement “from the collection of xxxx” which generally contributes to reaching a crazy price. People are willing to pay crazy prices if a gun for sale was in the collection of Tom Sellick or has a museum letter for the gun addressed to Hank Williams Jr – that’s just life in the fast lane!

  

Burt – 

I think you make a good point – that is, by providing a practical answer.  And I agree with you.  I would say yes, value is often added when a piece comes from a well-known collector.  Not that the collectors here would pay more – but the collector’s here don’t comprise the entire world of those who buy guns.  We are just a small fraction.  This is similar to various crazy prices we often comment on.  Most the time, it’s not the guys here paying those prices. I believe many of the buying public are swayed by hype such as the perceived prominence of the previous owner.  It reminds me of the phenomenon where many will pay more for a rifle pictured in one of the Madis books.   

steve004 said
  I would say yes, value is often added when a piece comes from a well-known collector.      

But the value isn’t added because they are “well known collectors.”  It’s added because they have become “famous people” for reasons having nothing to do with their interest in guns.  Their celebrity status, not their knowledge of guns, is the thing generating the added value.  Both of you are mixing up separate & unrelated factors.

clarence said

steve004 said
  I would say yes, value is often added when a piece comes from a well-known collector.      

But the value isn’t added because they are “well known collectors.”  It’s added because they have become “famous people” for reasons having nothing to do with their interest in guns.  Their celebrity status, not their knowledge of guns, is the thing generating the added value.  Both of you are mixing up separate & unrelated factors.  

I believe what you are saying is true – that at least quasi-logical people are influenced that way.  And then, there are, “people” who will jump at all manner of hype.  And there’s plenty out there.  Sort of like people will pay extra just because one of the name brand auction houses is offering it. 

Guns that can be documented as being in the personal collections of guys like Tommy Rholes, Felix Bedlan, Lewis Yearout and Paul Sorrell have always brought more money just because they belonged to these guys who were not celebrities but just long time dealers/collectors and had some of the finest Winchesters in their collections. When these guys sold a gun and it was advertised as “from my personal collection”, the gun always brought more than top dollar. No reason that it should be that way but that is just the way it has always been. So, back to the original questions of “does a gun from a well known collector add value”? From my experience, the answer has always been “yes”.

Burt Humphrey said
Guns that can be documented as being in the personal collections of guys like Tommy Rholes, Felix Bedlan, Lewis Yearout and Paul Sorrell have always brought more money just because they belonged to these guys who were not celebrities but just long time dealers/collectors and had some of the finest Winchesters in their collections. When these guys sold a gun and it was advertised as “from my personal collection”, the gun always brought more than top dollar. No reason that it should be that way but that is just the way it has always been. So, back to the original questions of “does a gun from a well known collector add value”? From my experience, the answer has always been “yes”.  

  Maybe the reason guns from these four collectors/dealers brought more money is because they recognized a gun with potential either now or in the future. Tommy Rholes was a real gentleman and I loved buying from him, but the only reason I bought guns from him was the guns. He had what I wanted. I bought a gun at RIA out of Felix Bedlan collection and paid over twice the high estimate. I would have paid the same money if it came out of the Bubba collection. I wanted that gun because it was one of a kind. I bought from Paul Sorrell because he handled 34″-36″ barreled guns, he knew where they were. These four names recognized rare, who wanted what, and placed the guns. If one of their rare guns come for sale again it will go high. T/R

clarence said

Burt Humphrey said  No reason that it should be that way but that is just the way it has always been.

But there IS a good reason:  the “collecting world” is full of blithering idiots, whose “gunology” knowledge is negligible, but whose pockets are deep.  I just watched a gun (a M1922 Spfd.) sell–on that playground of know-nothings, GUNBROKER–for over twice the value anybody with the brains to know what they were looking at would pay for it–non-original stock, non-original bolt, but it sold for the same price an all-original specimen would have brought.  Ignorance pays, if you’re a seller.  

Clarence – I don’t mean to get your blood pressure up and don’t disagree with anything you are saying. I have merely tried to make the point that in the real world of Winchester collecting, when a gun that has spent some time in the collection of a well known collector, becomes available for sale to the general public, it always seems to bring more money than most would think it should because of where it has been – I am not justifying it, just saying that is how it is and how it has always been. We both know lots of collectors with minimal knowledge are buying guns that are not right and tucking them away everyday. I bought my first Winchester back in the 60’s when I was still in high school and they were my passion for a long time. I was always a condition guy but only after the original and correct bases were covered. Over the years I often bought guns from guys like Tommy Rholes and probably paid too much at the time. However, time was on my side and the guns that had me sweating the most were the ones that appreciated in value the most. Over the last few years I have downsized from over 60 nice levers to 9 – it was my choice to keep one of each model manufactured in the 19th century. So, I am down to what I would consider a very modest Winchester lever collector. I am pleased that many of my guns were sold to WACA members and I am confident every gun was original and correct, sold at a fair price. Too bad I am not one of those well known dealers/collectors – I could have sold many of them for far more money. 

RickC said
Nice looking collection Burt!!  

I agree completely.  Even though Burt is always modest about what his collection had been, at its height, before he did a great deal of, “thinning” it must have been fabulous to see.  Just the group he posts now is a delight to view.

steve004 said

I agree completely.  Even though Burt is always modest about what his collection had been, at its height, before he did a great deal of, “thinning” it must have been fabulous to see.  Just the group he posts now is a delight to view.  

Yep! Burt’s “culls” are better than my “centerpieces”. Takes a brave man to sell such wonderful examples. 

Thanks for sharing your guns and expertise, Burt!

Mike

oldcrankyyankee said
First I’d like to say I’m sorry to get evert ones blood pressure hitting epic levels over this……

My BP’s fine. I enjoyed exploring my thoughts on the question and got some interesting perspective from others’ responses. It’s a question we touch on with some of the posts about auction guns. We’ll never agree on an answer but that’s OK. Good thread, thanks for posting the question.

Mike