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November 21, 2025
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I have had no luck researching post-64 Model 70information. It is like they don’t exist. I have several questions that any help would be appreciated:
1) Is there a part of this forum dedicated to just Model 70 issues? If so, I am ignorant as to how to locate it.
2) Is there any source with information about if a Winchester rifle was returned to Winchester for repair or was a custom order? I have a 1971 30-06 Mannlicher that I believe was either a custom order or was returned to Winchester for work. I believe this because there is a number 1 located in the receiver raceway and a 5-digit number stamped on the bottom of the barrel. Prior forum members and research I have done indicates this meant the rifle was returned to Winchester and the 5-digit number was a Winchester work order # assigned at the factory which would record what was done to the rifle. However, I have been told I am SOL trying to locate these factory records.
3) How can a firearms company of Winchesters stature have such poor record keeping? I see people with hundred year old Winchesters finding information about their firearm, but a 55 year old rifle=Nothing! Frustrating. How does the post-64 M70 get such little love?!?
November 5, 2014
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Hi Badger-
I feel your pain… 
As far as I know, we are all “SOL” when it comes to factory records of the original configuration or chambering of most Winchester Models made in the 20th Century.
1) There is no part of the Forum devoted exclusively to any specific Winchester model.
2) There is no repository for Product Services Department work orders, nor are there surviving Custom Shop records (excepting the Model 21). My (limited) understanding is that a single digit stamped in the left lug raceway and a number stamped under the barrel are evidence of an R&R, but information about what was done is unavailable. This is even true for those “100 year-old” Winchesters you mention, where “R&R” was recorded in the Shipping Department ledger but they rarely recorded exactly what was done.
3) I think the simple answer is that Winchester was in the business of making/selling firearms, not in creating/preserving a “historical legacy”. In the 19th Century (until about 1906), the Shipping Department kept records by serial number in hand-written bound ledgers. Winchester (Edwin Pugsley, I think) deemed these ledgers to be “historically significant” and had them preserved for the factory museum. These are the “letterable” guns of which you speak… But early in the 20th Century Winchester changed to an index card system for tracking individual guns. By mid-Century that had accumulated literally millions of such cards, and in the pre-computer era it would have been (near) impossible to find a specific card in the box/warehouse where it had been deposited. Net result was that the factory decided to clear out this fire hazard by deliberately burning tons of old paper in the factory furnaces. I think this effort coincided with their opening the “New Records Room” in the late 1950s. Keep in mind that these were current production Models, not “historic collector pieces”, and I seriously doubt that the Factory Executives ever dreamt that Model 70s made in 1950 or 1971 would be collectable.
If anyone reading this knows of the existence/location of the records Badger seeks, please tell us…
If the frustration (we all deal with) is overwhelming, the only alternative might be to start collecting Colts, since with them you can “letter” almost everything!!! 
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
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I will add to what Lou has so eruditely provided with this…
Prior to the enactment of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (in November of that year), there was no legal requirement to serialize or retain any records of any firearms manufactured in the United States. Consequently, when Winchester’s management decided to clear their records storage buildings of tons of flammable paper and free up 10’s of thousand of square feet of space, there was no impediment preventing them from doing so. Nobody in the 1940s & 1950s could envision that the firearms that they were manufacturing would become collector’s item or of historic value… they were simply tools of the trade so-to-speak.
After the enactment of the GCA of 1968, records were required to be maintained until such time as the business ceased operations. Accordingly, when Olin divested itself of its firearms manufacturing business (in early 1981), the records on hand were required by Federal law to be turned over to the BATF… away from public access. What we do not know, is precisely what records does the BATF actually have, and where do they have them buried? My bet is that they have the production records, and most likely the shipment records, but that they do not have (or retained) the custom shop or repair work orders.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 30, 2023
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I just came here to use the word “eruditely” in a sentence. Don’t ban me, Bert.
April 15, 2005
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Jeremy P said
I just came here to use the word “eruditely” in a sentence. Don’t ban me, Bert.
20-lashes with a limp noodle for you!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 2, 2009
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As far as the 3×5 cards for the 73 started in 1907 and went to 1933 including the last 73 and are still intact.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
April 15, 2005
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1873man said
As far as the 3×5 cards for the 73 started in 1907 and went to 1933 including the last 73 and are still intact.
Bob
Most of the Winchester models mad the transition from the old style ledger books to the index cards in the year 1907. For the Model 1892, it April 1907, and for the Model 1894, it was in May 1907. I believe that the last Model to make the records change was the Single Shot in July 1910.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 22, 2011
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Louis Luttrell said
If the frustration (we all deal with) is overwhelming, the only alternative might be to start collecting Colts, since with them you can “letter” almost everything!!!
Lou
Yes, most records for Colt firearms are available unless destroyed in the fire of 04 February 1864 or stolen by R Larry Wilson.
March 31, 2009
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mrcvs said
Louis Luttrell said
If the frustration (we all deal with) is overwhelming, the only alternative might be to start collecting Colts, since with them you can “letter” almost everything!!!
Lou
Yes, most records for Colt firearms are available unless destroyed in the fire of 04 February 1864 or stolen by R Larry Wilson.
I collect Colts too. Not all records are available but the ones that are give a lot more information than the available Winchester records. Cost is higher for a letter and it takes months to get one.
May 23, 2009
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Bert H. said
After the enactment of the GCA of 1968, records were required to be maintained until such time as the business ceased operations. Accordingly, when Olin divested itself of its firearms manufacturing business (in early 1981), the records on hand were required by Federal law to be turned over to the BATF… away from public access. What we do not know, is precisely what records does the BATF actually have, and where do they have them buried? My bet is that they have the production records, and most likely the shipment records, but that they do not have (or retained) the custom shop or repair work orders.
Bert
I do wonder if such information could be obtained through the (FOIA) Freedom of Information Act via a FOIA Request. If no person has never made such a request, then they’ve never been asked to release such information. I also don’t see how any that information would fall under the area of the FOIA that would qualify it for exemption. Unless they would argue that it is some sort of Trade Secret or Confidential business information in the way of customer lists & sales data. But all that information is over 40 years old at this point. Why would it need to remain Confidential? Why would Olin care if they are no longer in the gun business?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
December 9, 2002
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Bert H. said
I will add to what Lou has so eruditely provided with this…
Prior to the enactment of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (in November of that year), there was no legal requirement to serialize or retain any records of any firearms manufactured in the United States. Consequently, when Winchester’s management decided to clear their records storage buildings of tons of flammable paper and free up 10’s of thousand of square feet of space, there was no impediment preventing them from doing so. Nobody in the 1940s & 1950s could envision that the firearms that they were manufacturing would become collector’s item or of historic value… they were simply tools of the trade so-to-speak.
After the enactment of the GCA of 1968, records were required to be maintained until such time as the business ceased operations. Accordingly, when Olin divested itself of its firearms manufacturing business (in early 1981), the records on hand were required by Federal law to be turned over to the BATF… away from public access. What we do not know, is precisely what records does the BATF actually have, and where do they have them buried? My bet is that they have the production records, and most likely the shipment records, but that they do not have (or retained) the custom shop or repair work orders.
Bert
Some very good information, once again brought to light, by Bert, and as Lou, is ever so great with his re search work, and as so many others are on here also. The time to dedicate to this great hobby is a love and passion by so many, as we all try to lend a hand, and bring more facts to the table! 
Thanks to All!
Tony
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