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April 15, 2005
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Buck1967 said
First year production. Absolutely stunning Henry! Thanks for sharing!
Actually, it is a second-year production Model 1894, and it is a much more common Second Model versus a First Model. It is a very fine Fancy Special Rifle though. 
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 14, 2025
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Bert H. said
Buck1967 said
First year production. Absolutely stunning Henry! Thanks for sharing!
Actually, it is a second-year production Model 1894, and it is a much more common Second Model versus a First Model. It is a very fine Fancy Special Rifle though.
Bert
Do you mean because it was received in the warehouse in 95 even though it was made within the first 12 months of production it is considered a 2nd year? Do we distinguish between calendar year and production year or is the established standard we should be using calendar year? Appreciate the education here, thank you!
April 15, 2005
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Buck1967 said
Bert H. said
Buck1967 said
First year production. Absolutely stunning Henry! Thanks for sharing!
Actually, it is a second-year production Model 1894, and it is a much more common Second Model versus a First Model. It is a very fine Fancy Special Rifle though.
Bert
Do you mean because it was received in the warehouse in 95 even though it was made within the first 12 months of production it is considered a 2nd year? Do we distinguish between calendar year and production year or is the established standard we should be using calendar year? Appreciate the education here, thank you!
A “first” year Model 1894 would be in the calendar year 1894. A total of 1,674 Model 1894s are “first” year production guns. Henry’s rifle was serialized on March 4th, 1895 (well into the second year of production) and was received in the warehouse 1-month later.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 21, 2006
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Bert Is absolutely right, 2nd year, and a 2nd model, a real early one however. I would like it to be a first year, 1st model, but it ain’t. I currently have 5 first models , 4 of them being serialized 1st. year. None of them are case colored though. There are pictures on an earlier post.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
April 30, 2023
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Rick C said
I have to agree with Chuck. A Turnbull restoration certainly brings less value, versus an unmolested Original Winchester but, a Turnbull restoration may have more value to the owner who has just restored a family heirloom or rifle that has been passed down through generations that is in dire need of restoration or, they would like to bring it back to its glory days when it was originally acquired. In that case, Turnbull would be my choice.
I make this same argument from time to time and I usually get pounded for it, but I still agree. If I had a long-time family heirloom that was just rotting away, maybe not in the best shape, I think that is always a good restoration candidate. Otherwise, I prefer original too. Call it a hybrid-situational approach….
I have a newer gun that is Turnbull finished and it is beautiful.
September 19, 2014
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Jeremy, YES, inherited firearms can well be worth the expense to have someone totally restore it. That is an emotional thing. The thrust then is not to create a highly valuable piece to sell in the near future or the present. You, or I, just need to be aware it will far and away cost more to restore than it will likely ever return that value. I don’t think anyone will “pound” you for restoring a sentimental piece. Tim
May 14, 2025
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Guys I very much appreciate the education on this topic! In reading your comments I believe I can follow the logic that if a restoration of an 1894 say serial #8 that just sold at Rock Island leads to all new parts then it isn’t really #8 anymore and thus your logical opinion and belief the rifle is devalued. However, I’m curious if that opinion holds if the only restoration done is to reblue and restain the existing original parts would you still argue the rifle is devalued? Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me!
April 1, 2005
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I like everything about the case hardened 94 – most have never seen one except in photos. With consideration for the difficulty in finding one of these, how much do you think the lack of a nototation in the ledger for the screw eyes hurts the gun?
March 14, 2022
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Buck1967, the best way I can explain, it doesn’t mean it’s not collectable to certain individuals and I’m sure others here, including Bert, can elaborate or expand better than I can but, a restored gun to Most collectors has no collector value.
Rick C
March 31, 2009
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Burt Humphrey said
I like everything about the case hardened 94 – most have never seen one except in photos. With consideration for the difficulty in finding one of these, how much do you think the lack of a nototation in the ledger for the screw eyes hurts the gun?
I don’t know but if I could I’d still buy it.
April 15, 2005
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Burt Humphrey said
I like everything about the case hardened 94 – most have never seen one except in photos. With consideration for the difficulty in finding one of these, how much do you think the lack of a nototation in the ledger for the screw eyes hurts the gun?
Burt,
It depends on if the screw eyes were indeed factory installed, period installed, or modern (recent) installed. The distance from the toe of the butt stock to the center of the sling eye in the butt stock is the first thing I would check.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 14, 2025
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Rick C said
Buck1967, the best way I can explain, it doesn’t mean it’s not collectable to certain individuals and I’m sure others here, including Bert, can elaborate or expand better than I can but, a restored gun to Most collectors has no collector value.
Rick I swear I’m not trying to be obtuse but where do we draw the line? Grandpa has a Winchester and passes it down to his son who in turn sands it down and restains the butt when his own son is say 5 and then that son inherits it when dad passes away. Son may not even know dad did anything to the rifle and thus innocently believes it is original. He then innocently sells it to you or I. Did we then get ripped off? Isn’t the reality that there has to 1000’s and 1000’s of such Winchesters that were restored and none of us even know? My ignorance may be on full display here but how would any of us know if a rifle were one of those? Are we really saying fixing a scratch devalues the rifle? Literally an itch we can’t scratch? 😀 again, very much appreciate the education to help in my buying decisions!
April 15, 2005
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Buck1967 said
Rick C said
Buck1967, the best way I can explain, it doesn’t mean it’s not collectable to certain individuals and I’m sure others here, including Bert, can elaborate or expand better than I can but, a restored gun to Most collectors has no collector value.
Rick I swear I’m not trying to be obtuse but where do we draw the line? Grandpa has a Winchester and passes it down to his son who in turn sands it down and restains the butt when his own son is say 5 and then that son inherits it when dad passes away. Son may not even know dad did anything to the rifle and thus innocently believes it is original. He then innocently sells it to you or I. Did we then get ripped off? Isn’t the reality that there has to 1000’s and 1000’s of such Winchesters that were restored and none of us even know? My ignorance may be on full display here but how would any of us know if a rifle were one of those? Are we really saying fixing a scratch devalues the rifle? Literally an itch we can’t scratch? 😀 again, very much appreciate the education to help in my buying decisions!
Buck,
For many of us, an old Winchester that has had the stocks sanded and refinished, or buffed, polished and reblued is very easy to spot when the gun is within arms reach. It is also very easy for us serious collectors to leave them original and untouched when found in 100% original condition. It is the unlearned and/or unknowing people that will “scratch that itch” and devalue the gun. Back in the days before old Winchesters became such a collectable commodity, it was very common for owners of said guns to have them reworked and refinished when deemed necessary. For that reason, those that have not been reworked/refinished are much more desirable and valuable.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 14, 2025
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Thank you Bert! I’m a why guy and I think I understand now. Appreciate everyone’s help! Here’s a pic of one of my recent acquisitions. I had it restored but I think you guys will be okay with this restoration 😀
April 15, 2005
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Very neat!! I like it
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 23, 2009
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I like your War Wagon! When did Winchester open a Salt Lake City store?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
April 15, 2005
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Maverick said
I like your War Wagon! When did Winchester open a Salt Lake City store?
Sincerely,
Maverick
Probably shortly after becoming acquainted with JMB and brothers…
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 23, 2009
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I only recall ever seeing the New York and San Francisco stores being mentioned in company catalogs and letterhead. Of course that is pre-1920, before the Winchester Store Era.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
September 19, 2014
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For all, I suspect there are nearly as many answers as folks willing to talk on this subject. I want and pay for Winchesters that are as near as I can afford to the way they are from the factory with all normal aging but good care, that has happened to them in their existence to date. Refinishing the stock is not restoration but is a detractor. Rebluing is not restoration, but a detractor. Restoration is working on every aspect to try to have it look and act the way it did the day it left the factory. Now another observation and a conundrum if you will. High grade English made shotguns are routinely returned to the factory to be returned to new or nearly new condition and it is considered “normal” and does not seem to detract from those values. I think the difference is that we collect factory mass produced firearms. The English best grade guns are made slowly to order by relatively small shops and are expected to be kept in that condition. May I toss out another item for consideration? I have an 1894 two barrel set. It was returned twice to Winchester. The 24 inch barrels were subsequently shortened to 20 inches with the work order on the barrels and J.P.P. stamped in. Plus one of the two times it was likely totally refinished. It is listed in the survey as a two barrel set, stated in its letter (along with the original shorter than standard barrels), etc. I am very glad to have it, did not pay a huge premium, yet is it “original”? Apparently Winchester did the work each time. No black and white, but various shades of grey. Tim
July 14, 2016
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Tim, I think the biggest point you mentioned is that they were returned to the factory that they were produced in to do the work. I would think the biggest detraction would be any modificaitons or re-fiishing being done not by the original manufacturer.
At what time period did Winchester stop doing repairs and returns for their arms?
Chris
A man can never have too many WINCHESTERS...
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