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Buy gun, not story?
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December 18, 2021 - 11:40 pm
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Thought you guys might have a field day with all the Little Big Horn guns (Winchesters and Colts).  True or not?  The write ups had my Spidey sense a tingling. Laugh  Gun at Little Big Horn AND with Apache’s.  And POTUS Lincoln rifle to son on 12th B-day?  

https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/cave-gun-from-geronimo-mangas-camp-possibly-carri_CC64E4396C

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December 19, 2021 - 12:43 am
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Quite a story–puts “Dads Old Guns” to shame.  But if the Apache tribe has heard of it, & believes the story, I wouldn’t want to be owner of the gun when the federal lawsuit is filed to reclaim it.

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December 19, 2021 - 6:33 pm
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Sounds like it could be the real thing. At the very least the faker has done his homework. If the provenance stacks up I’m sure someone would be a proud owner. It’s apparently been collector-owned and discussed in print for some time, doubtful the Apache will make a claim since they haven’t already. Stranger things have happened.

 

Mike

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December 19, 2021 - 7:18 pm
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TXGunNut said
 It’s apparently been collector-owned and discussed in print for some time, doubtful the Apache will make a claim since they haven’t already.

Yes, but museums all over the country have been compelled to return Indian artifacts acquired legally a century or more ago.  The story about burial in a cave may be an Apache custom, but if so it was on tribal land, & it’s hard to believe the tribe giving permission to anyone to disturb a grave site.  And if they did, wouldn’t whomever acquired the gun want something in writing not only to confirm its authenticity, but to prove he hadn’t looted it?

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December 19, 2021 - 7:53 pm
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There are some other guns in the auction.  Having read the write-ups, here is what I come away “feeling”:  I’m in my early 60s and I been told by old men since I was in my teens that Old Colts and Winchesters have been “of interest” for a very long time.  It would not surprise me if legitimate museums and collectors “bought the story” for a low price, clear back as early as the late 1800s.  Hell, western movies started in 1894: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Western_films_before_1920#1894

One of those guns was selling as provenance a 1947 auction/sale statement by a then-seller.  Excuse me!  But if that same thing happened back, in say, 1902, or 1895, then jeesh, it seems time itself has started it’s own “boostrapping” phenomena.

If these guns are straight up, you’d think they’d have letter from Kopek or one of you guys, at least saying the dates and configurations line up.  X-ray the serial # under the leather?

I suppose I probably find this stuff of more interest that some, because I like the dark metal and wood and story.  Whereas many want a virgin.  But if it were me, I’d have an expert all over the gun before I shelled out $10k +.

The Lincoln gun for sure.

Oh well, it’s not like I’ll be bidding.  But I am interested to read what you all are saying.

 

  

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December 19, 2021 - 8:19 pm
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 That’s a 3rd model receiver, maybe made after 1882, how does that get back to 1876 to be carried at the Little Big Horn. The butt stock could be a First model that came off a gun made before June 1876. Many Indians use their guns to tell past stories and the stock is easy to mark or change. T/R

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December 19, 2021 - 8:31 pm
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I’m with Huck. I would think a seller or a museum would be all over a piece like this… not with auctionzip.

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December 19, 2021 - 9:10 pm
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It originally was a musket that had a saber.

Bob

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