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April 26, 2015 - 3:40 am
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   Good Evening People,,,:hi:,,

  From, The Twilight Zone, It’s 7:26 pm, 25 April 2015.  Kinda nice out today mid 50’s, clear blue sky, everything is Greening Up.

  Like the Title to this Thread Says, Armax?  I did a search on this configuration of Letters to form this Word and that Little Red line appeared ( it’s not in this language hokie), but I kept playing scrabble with it and got a reply to my search. What the search revealed was, Various Books Written about Various Subjects, by Various Authors.

   So it’s, 7:35 pm, 25 April 2015, time for a Smoke Break..:w:,to collect my thoughts. 7:45 pm, I’m back.

  I have read here on the Forum about such a Book, being referenced. If I remember right, It was called The Red Book, ARMAX Servery? I checked out the Book Store here on the WACA Site and I couldn’t find it. The search I did on-line, revealed one whole page of Books from ARMAX. The prices varied from $10.00 to $255.00, Holy Geeeeezus. Anyway I guess the difference is the Different Articles, within a Certain Volume, who wrote it, and I don’t know what else.

  What has triggered my Quest for this Elusive Book Containing Pertinent Information about Winchesters, was a Recent Posting of a Page from said Book. I am only going to use the post, from a reply in a Thread here on the Forum.

 

   ARMAX-Model-1894-Barrel-Length-Chart.jpg

  I find this Very Intriguing, The Statistics (wow didn’t have to play scrabble with that word), Listed on this page of this Book, are they Derived from Actual Winchester Ledger Entries? In plain English (wow that little red line popped up on that word, i forgot the capital E), are these Model 1894/94 Winchesters the ones a Letter was Obtained From Winchester Factory Ledgers, to be on this List?

  Now here’s the Tricky Question (the second question), If this List is only Derived from Winchester Factory Records, Does the List Grow with New Found Winchesters, that Can Not be Lettered?  

  As Things here in The Twilight Zone seem to be Different from Everybody Else’s Zone. I have in my Possession, Winchesters, that were Made by the Winchester Factory, from Parts Manufactured by Winchester and Assembled into a Complete Winchester Rifle. I believe (to the Best of My Worldly Knowledge), Winchester Utilized Parts from one Time Zone to Another Time Zone, to Produce a Winchester Rifle/Carbine. That if you had the Money, Winchester would Accommodate You however you wanted your Winchester Built. Plus My Buddy Oliver, was a very a very Thrifty Person (yes in my previous life we were good friends). why throw away (scrap) good barrel stock when a barrel could be made from it. Did someone Order it with those Non Standard Lengths? I Think Yes, Especially the Short Rifles and the Extra Long Barreled Rifles, as there are Examples out there that have many other Options added to them other that just a Non Standard Barrel.

  It’s 9:00 pm, 25 April 2015, My phone is ringing, i may have to go to work, as that is the only time my phone rings, plus I need another smoke break,,,:w:,,Well it’s 9:46 pm, 25 April 2015, I didn’t have to go to work. I am amazed that someone actually wanted to talk to me.

  Geeeezus, I hope I can Finish what I have to say before I fall asleep. Now as far as a Winchester Carbine, Yes I do Think, shorter Length Barrels were Special Ordered, as the Carbine was a Work Tool Back in the Day. There were Reasons to have a Shorter Barrel that Standard Twenty Inch (20″), Trappers as they were Called is one reason, if you were a Trapper Back in the Day would you want to carry a Standard Carbine? I use to run a Trap Line Back in the Day, I always took my shortest 22 mag rifle with me. Then you have Concealment Factor, for a Short Carbine, Back in the Day, the transportation Mode was Horse, Stage Coach, Trains, Bicycle and a lot of Walking was done back then. But, What I Really Perceive to be True, is My Buddy Oliver, was a Business Man out to make a Profit from his Company, pay his workers well and Produce a Winchester Product of Quality and Accuracy.

  Just My Thoughts (opinion) about what I have Written here is (Being from The Twilight Zone), that during the Manufacturing Process, of Producing Finely Made Winchester Rifles and Carbines. Yes Special Ordered Rifles and Carbines were Produced. Now I’m going to say (for example), Winchester Ordered their Barrel Stock from the Manufacture in Twenty (20′) Foot Lengths, it is cut into Standard Length (26″) and (20″) to produce the Standard Model 1894/94 Rifle and Carbine, But Don’t Forget, you have to allow for the width of the saw blade to make the cuts, so you have to subtract that from the overall length of original barrel stock, so the last barrel cut from that 20′ stock should be Shorter that a Standard Barrel. I am a good Mathematician, but I’m not going to sit here and figure out what you end up with, you will never get to read what I have to say.

  Anyway, Lets say, the Barrel Shop is Turning out Carbine Barrels (Holy Geeeeezus), a Special Order comes in for hokie, because he is a Good Buddy Of Oliver, the Foreman tells the barrel cutter to stop what he is making and cut (make) a 36″ Round Barrel, Now how much barrel stock do you have left out of that 20′ piece of barrel stock? Depends on how many 20″ barrels he cut before the order was given to make hokies Special Ordered 36″ Barrel. To Clarify what I am trying to Convey is, The Winchester Factory ended up with Various Lengths of Barrel Stock from Producing Special Ordered Rifles and Carbines. That My Buddy Oliver, would not scrap because he got the Most Bang out of His Buck, which ended up as a Rare (odd) Length, Barreled Winchester. Did the Person examining Winchesters being sent out to Fulfill an Order Measure all of them? Did just a few get Passed un-noticed and shipped? I bet the Salesman Back in the Day, went to his Accounts and told the Hardware Store Owner, hey listen I have these Oddball Length Winchester Carbines and Rifles, would you like to Purchase a few of them to sell at a Reduced Price?

Then You Have the Location of the Winchester Factory, Yes I do Believe that More Oddball Winchesters, can be found and were found here in the Northeast Portion of this Great Country. You have to Consider that Winchester Did have an In House Store, for it’s Employees. Were these Oddball Winchesters offered to the Employees at a Discounted Price? Then you have to Good Ole Buddy system ( like Me and Oliver),  you know the story, hey buddy can You Have this Winchester Made for Me, I know it’s Discontinued but could you have One Made Out of Left Over Parts, that just lay around the Shop?

  Well in Closing, From The Twilight Zone. I could go on. But it’s 11:39 pm, 25 April 2015. I want to go to the Flea Market in the Morning (7:30 am), hope I can wake up, as it’s way past my bedtime.

  I Would Like to Add the Normal Disclaimer:

#1 – If You took the Time to Read all of what I have Posted, I am Elated.

#2 – I Hope You Enjoyed Reading About My Thoughts.

#3 – If You Do Feel the Urge to Reply, I Would Like to Read Your Thoughts.

#4 – My Relevant Questions are, where do I get That Elusive Book? Addition of found guns that may be added to that List. You Know the Ones I’m talking about, my original Questions. The Rest Is Just My Thoughts.

#5 – I Hope, Rick Hill Reads this Thread, as He would be overjoyed with me, because I only smoked three (3) Cigarettes to Accomplish this Feat. (forgot to add the last one, but who’s counting) Not Me.

#6 – Hey LeRoy, If You Read this, Where is that Smoking ( you know i smoke) Hot Secretary? I Hope you aren’t Still Interviewing Just Her. 

#7 – Well Rob, I Think I Blew The Mission.

#8 – Holy Geeeeezus, I almost forgot this one, The example I used in this Post, was Just that and example, as I didn’t know where else to get it from and I didn’t want to Do the Whole Quote Thing.

  So from The Twilight Zone, Enjoy Your Days Collecting Winchesters::thumbsup:

      hokie

  

  

   

"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"

"Instead of The Space Age"

From

 The Twilight Zone

 

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April 26, 2015 - 4:01 am
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Mark,

Holy crap… that was a loonnngggg read!  I did manage to get through it all (no smoke breaks), and I believe that I understand most of your questions;

Question 1;

Listed on this page of this Book, are they Derived from Actual Winchester Ledger Entries?

Yes, they were.  Back in the early 1990s, several people working at the CFM conducted a detailed survey of the 353,999 Model 1894 ledger entries.

Question 2;

 If this List is only Derived from Winchester Factory Records, Does the List Grow with New Found Winchesters, that Can Not be Lettered?  

No, it does not grow with any serial number that is greater than 353,999… yet.  As many of you know, I am working on surveys covering serial numbers 354000 – 999999, and 1000000 – 2600011+.  Someday the results of those surveys can be used to supplement the survey contained in the ARMAX.

 

Bert

p.s. one of these days, we should have a phone chat… I might be able to get you a copy of the ARMAX Vol V section that covered the Model 1894 production statistics.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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April 26, 2015 - 10:13 am
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   Good Morning Bert,,,:hi:,,

  From The Twilight Zone, it’s 6:02 am, 26 April 2015. I have been up now for a few hours, Ready to go to the Flea Market, in search of that Rare Winchester.

 I want to Thank You for Your Response to my Questions. It would be Very Interesting to Know how many Model 1894/94 Winchester Rifles and Carbines, Winchester Produced in this Variation of Barrel Lengths. Not Only the Model 1894/94 But All Models that Winchester Produced.

  So in Closing, (had to keep it short, i got to get going to the flea market) From The Twilight Zone, it’s 6:10 am 26 April 2015.

  Maybe I will see you on the Winchester Collecting Trail.

     hokie:

  PS: This One is for You Bert,,,, :thumbup:

"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"

"Instead of The Space Age"

From

 The Twilight Zone

 

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April 26, 2015 - 12:59 pm
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hokie said

   Good Evening People,,,:hi:,,

  From, The Twilight Zone, It’s 7:26 pm, 25 April 2015.  Kinda nice out today mid 50’s, clear blue sky, everything is Greening Up.

  Like the Title to this Thread Says, Armax?  I did a search on this configuration of Letters to form this Word and that Little Red line appeared ( it’s not in this language hokie), but I kept playing scrabble with it and got a reply to my search. What the search revealed was, Various Books Written about Various Subjects, by Various Authors.

   So it’s, 7:35 pm, 25 April 2015, time for a Smoke Break..:w:,to collect my thoughts. 7:45 pm, I’m back.

  I have read here on the Forum about such a Book, being referenced. If I remember right, It was called The Red Book, ARMAX Servery? I checked out the Book Store here on the WACA Site and I couldn’t find it. The search I did on-line, revealed one whole page of Books from ARMAX. The prices varied from $10.00 to $255.00, Holy Geeeeezus. Anyway I guess the difference is the Different Articles, within a Certain Volume, who wrote it, and I don’t know what else.

  What has triggered my Quest for this Elusive Book Containing Pertinent Information about Winchesters, was a Recent Posting of a Page from said Book. I am only going to use the post, from a reply in a Thread here on the Forum.

 

   ARMAX-Model-1894-Barrel-Length-Chart.jpg

  I find this Very Intriguing, The Statistics (wow didn’t have to play scrabble with that word), Listed on this page of this Book, are they Derived from Actual Winchester Ledger Entries? In plain English (wow that little red line popped up on that word, i forgot the capital E), are these Model 1894/94 Winchesters the ones a Letter was Obtained From Winchester Factory Ledgers, to be on this List?

  Now here’s the Tricky Question (the second question), If this List is only Derived from Winchester Factory Records, Does the List Grow with New Found Winchesters, that Can Not be Lettered?  

  As Things here in The Twilight Zone seem to be Different from Everybody Else’s Zone. I have in my Possession, Winchesters, that were Made by the Winchester Factory, from Parts Manufactured by Winchester and Assembled into a Complete Winchester Rifle. I believe (to the Best of My Worldly Knowledge), Winchester Utilized Parts from one Time Zone to Another Time Zone, to Produce a Winchester Rifle/Carbine. That if you had the Money, Winchester would Accommodate You however you wanted your Winchester Built. Plus My Buddy Oliver, was a very a very Thrifty Person (yes in my previous life we were good friends). why throw away (scrap) good barrel stock when a barrel could be made from it. Did someone Order it with those Non Standard Lengths? I Think Yes, Especially the Short Rifles and the Extra Long Barreled Rifles, as there are Examples out there that have many other Options added to them other that just a Non Standard Barrel.

  It’s 9:00 pm, 25 April 2015, My phone is ringing, i may have to go to work, as that is the only time my phone rings, plus I need another smoke break,,,:w:,,Well it’s 9:46 pm, 25 April 2015, I didn’t have to go to work. I am amazed that someone actually wanted to talk to me.

  Geeeezus, I hope I can Finish what I have to say before I fall asleep. Now as far as a Winchester Carbine, Yes I do Think, shorter Length Barrels were Special Ordered, as the Carbine was a Work Tool Back in the Day. There were Reasons to have a Shorter Barrel that Standard Twenty Inch (20″), Trappers as they were Called is one reason, if you were a Trapper Back in the Day would you want to carry a Standard Carbine? I use to run a Trap Line Back in the Day, I always took my shortest 22 mag rifle with me. Then you have Concealment Factor, for a Short Carbine, Back in the Day, the transportation Mode was Horse, Stage Coach, Trains, Bicycle and a lot of Walking was done back then. But, What I Really Perceive to be True, is My Buddy Oliver, was a Business Man out to make a Profit from his Company, pay his workers well and Produce a Winchester Product of Quality and Accuracy.

  Just My Thoughts (opinion) about what I have Written here is (Being from The Twilight Zone), that during the Manufacturing Process, of Producing Finely Made Winchester Rifles and Carbines. Yes Special Ordered Rifles and Carbines were Produced. Now I’m going to say (for example), Winchester Ordered their Barrel Stock from the Manufacture in Twenty (20′) Foot Lengths, it is cut into Standard Length (26″) and (20″) to produce the Standard Model 1894/94 Rifle and Carbine, But Don’t Forget, you have to allow for the width of the saw blade to make the cuts, so you have to subtract that from the overall length of original barrel stock, so the last barrel cut from that 20′ stock should be Shorter that a Standard Barrel. I am a good Mathematician, but I’m not going to sit here and figure out what you end up with, you will never get to read what I have to say.

  Anyway, Lets say, the Barrel Shop is Turning out Carbine Barrels (Holy Geeeeezus), a Special Order comes in for hokie, because he is a Good Buddy Of Oliver, the Foreman tells the barrel cutter to stop what he is making and cut (make) a 36″ Round Barrel, Now how much barrel stock do you have left out of that 20′ piece of barrel stock? Depends on how many 20″ barrels he cut before the order was given to make hokies Special Ordered 36″ Barrel. To Clarify what I am trying to Convey is, The Winchester Factory ended up with Various Lengths of Barrel Stock from Producing Special Ordered Rifles and Carbines. That My Buddy Oliver, would not scrap because he got the Most Bang out of His Buck, which ended up as a Rare (odd) Length, Barreled Winchester. Did the Person examining Winchesters being sent out to Fulfill an Order Measure all of them? Did just a few get Passed un-noticed and shipped? I bet the Salesman Back in the Day, went to his Accounts and told the Hardware Store Owner, hey listen I have these Oddball Length Winchester Carbines and Rifles, would you like to Purchase a few of them to sell at a Reduced Price?

Then You Have the Location of the Winchester Factory, Yes I do Believe that More Oddball Winchesters, can be found and were found here in the Northeast Portion of this Great Country. You have to Consider that Winchester Did have an In House Store, for it’s Employees. Were these Oddball Winchesters offered to the Employees at a Discounted Price? Then you have to Good Ole Buddy system ( like Me and Oliver),  you know the story, hey buddy can You Have this Winchester Made for Me, I know it’s Discontinued but could you have One Made Out of Left Over Parts, that just lay around the Shop?

  Well in Closing, From The Twilight Zone. I could go on. But it’s 11:39 pm, 25 April 2015. I want to go to the Flea Market in the Morning (7:30 am), hope I can wake up, as it’s way past my bedtime.

  I Would Like to Add the Normal Disclaimer:

#1 – If You took the Time to Read all of what I have Posted, I am Elated.

#2 – I Hope You Enjoyed Reading About My Thoughts.

#3 – If You Do Feel the Urge to Reply, I Would Like to Read Your Thoughts.

#4 – My Relevant Questions are, where do I get That Elusive Book? Addition of found guns that may be added to that List. You Know the Ones I’m talking about, my original Questions. The Rest Is Just My Thoughts.

#5 – I Hope, Rick Hill Reads this Thread, as He would be overjoyed with me, because I only smoked three (3) Cigarettes to Accomplish this Feat. (forgot to add the last one, but who’s counting) Not Me.

#6 – Hey LeRoy, If You Read this, Where is that Smoking ( you know i smoke) Hot Secretary? I Hope you aren’t Still Interviewing Just Her. 

#7 – Well Rob, I Think I Blew The Mission.

#8 – Holy Geeeeezus, I almost forgot this one, The example I used in this Post, was Just that and example, as I didn’t know where else to get it from and I didn’t want to Do the Whole Quote Thing.

  So from The Twilight Zone, Enjoy Your Days Collecting Winchesters::thumbsup:

      hokie

  

  

   

Hokie,
Hope you find that rare special barrel length Winchester at the flea market.  You just never know.  Good luck, and I enjoy reading your thoughts.

Al

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April 27, 2015 - 11:47 pm
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    :hi:,,There Bert,

  From The Twilight Zone, It’s 7:12 pm, 27 April 2015. Just another April day here in the Zone. Kinda cool, Overcast, it wanted to rain today but didn’t. Oh ya, yesterday at the Flea Market, there was a Model 12 16 Ga nice condition Serial# 1,16x,xxx $300.00. A Winchester Model 1890, Blued Octagon Barrel, Half Nickel (receiver), kinda decent, really didn’t pick it up and examine it. Asking Price was $875.00   

  In Regards to the Various Barrel Lengths Listed in The ARAMAX Study, of the Model 1894, Winchester. Excluding Standard Length 26″ Rifles and 20″ Carbines. How many have You Recorded in your on going Servery of the Model 1894, Winchester from Serial Number 1 thru 353,999 that have Shorter or Longer, Length Barrels? That have survived From That Time Zone to the Present Time Zone?

  So in closing (I’ll keep it short), I’m just curious as to how many are out there.

  From The Twilight Zone, It’s 7:47 pm. 27 April 2015. Enjoy Your Evening.

          hokie

  PS: tionesta1 (AL) the first Paragraph is for You and Your Reply to my Post,,,,,,:thumbsup:

  

  

"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"

"Instead of The Space Age"

From

 The Twilight Zone

 

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April 28, 2015 - 1:07 am
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  Hokie – as far as the short barreled 1894/94’s, I have 212 of them noted in my short rifle survey with 71 of them in the letterable range. They range from 15″ to 24″.  This does not include any carbines.
   
 
   

                                                                               ~Gary~

                                                                                                                                                                              94-SRR.jpg

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April 28, 2015 - 2:16 am
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Mark,

I have not intentionally surveyed any of the Model 1894s in the 1 – 353999 serial range other than the First Models. I have shared my survey with Gary for those > 353999.

Bert

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