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January 27, 1992
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I have had this rifle for about 20 years. I have never gained a critical eye for what’s original and correct. Feel free to voice your views both positive and negative . The finish on the stock has always been questionable to me, but the wood seems to remain “proud” to the metal. I did remove sight hood to show the sight and it does have the swivels and a sling. Thanks for your input. RDB P.S. It is a 30-06. 
August 8, 2024
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Roger, You have a very nice carbine. With the Super Grade carbine being very easy to upgrade. Most all examples that I see I value them as a sum of parts. With the exception of one being chambered in the .30Gov’t06. Then maybe it is correct. That is how I feel about them. Other Collectors may not. Just be careful!
November 19, 2006
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Roger –
It sure is a very nice looking rifle 
I don’t have the knowledge or experience to comment on the originality.
Roger – you have added some very interesting and appealing rifles to your collection over the years. You’ve enjoyed them – and that’s what counts.
I often reflect on how my enjoyment of a piece can get derailed by that, “fussy collector” section of my brain that can be a real downer.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Roger-
I like your rifle!!! 
It would look real nice in my gun room…
Like Bob said, the problem with Super Grade Carbines is that they are too easy to “make” (inside or outside the factory) if you have the three necessary parts (stock, floor plate and front sight) to swap. So I too regard them all as “parts guns” (that includes the two I have). The question is where were the parts assembled, inside or outside the factory…
Since you invited comments… IMHO the rifle is definitely a pre-war 30 GOV’T’06 Carbine (not a fake barrel). The SG stock (with 18-line checkering and later front swivel position) is appropriate for the 1941 date. The monogram plate looks to be about the right size and right place for where Winchester would put one if so ordered. I’ve seen some pre-war Super Grades with very slick finishes that I think are factory, so I wouldn’t question yours. Of course if the monogram plate was added later the stock may have gotten extra attention at that time. I wouldn’t care. The floor plate should read with the Helvetica “G” and probably the oversized/misaligned “P” and “A” like on the GB gun we were discussing in the other thread.
I do have a couple issues with the sights… The Lyman 48WJS receiver sight appears to be one with the coved base that didn’t require a stock cut and the shortened external leaf spring on the left side. That is a 1947-1950 sight. The front sight is a Redfield full gold, I think a 255 (0.360″ tall). Most Standard Carbines and most pre-1952 Super Grades I’ve seen have a 0.310″ tall front sight. So my guess is that the sights have been changed at some point. Are there “elevator tracks” on top of the barrel from a Winchester 22G?
Very Nice!!! Factory original??? I don’t think it can be determined with certainty. That’s the problem with SG Carbines…
Just my take,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
December 13, 2006
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Louis Luttrell said
The SG stock (with 18-line checkering and later front swivel position) is appropriate for the 1941 date. . . . . .
Louis . . . I thought all pre-war M70s had 20-line checkering . . . .as does my December 1939 M70 Hornet?
August 8, 2024
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Most agree that 1941 is when Winchester went from 20 lines per inch, to 18 lines per inch on the checkering.
January 27, 1992
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Thanks Lou. It definately had a barrel sight originally. The rub marks the elevator left, lead me to believe the rifle had not been reblued. The receiver sight is the later coved production. So no stock modification. Just checked and the front sight measures .310. Nice “Parts Gun” so far. I am partial to the carbines, but only have three. My other ’06 Carbine is “standard” configured rifle with a Stith mounted Weaver 330. It has been “redone”. It had a receiver mounted scope at one time. The 4 filled receiver holes are visible, if you look carefully. Like all Model 70s it is very accurate! Thanks for your input. RDB
November 5, 2014
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Hi Jim-
I’m going to get in trouble here, b/c I’m going to contradict the “Gospel according to Rule” and agree with the lesser known tenant of Dean Whitaker…
There’s a difference between Standard rifles and Super Grades. Standard rifles were originally all 20-line checkered. The factory authorized the change to 18-line checkering in 1941, but either the “memo” didn’t reach the factory floor before WWII hostilities broke out, or they had a healthy inventory of already finished standard stocks, b/c you can encounter 20-line checkered stocks at least into 1947 (mixed with 18-line after 1941).
Super Grades OTOH… Both 20-line and 18-line checkering was used from the beginning. According to Whitaker, it was up to the checkerer and based on whether they thought the wood could handle the finer wrap-around pattern. Rule just says that Super Grades (like Standards) were all 20-line before 1941.
The best evidence I have that Whitaker is correct stems from the position of the front sling swivel base relative to the black fore end tip. Initially the swivel base was further forward such that its front edge was only about 1/4″ from the black tip. This apparently led to wood splitting between the swivel base and fore end tip, so pretty early on the swivel was moved back to leave about 5/8″ of wood in that location. Best I can tell, these “later” SG stocks appear in good numbers in early 1938, although the “early” stocks can be found on guns well into 1939. So IMHO the front swivel position is a way to “date” pre-war SG stocks (since stocks aren’t dated).
So what’s that go to do with checkering? Looking at stocks with the early swivel position (c. 1936-1938), you can find either 20-line or 18-line checkering. Same is true of pre-war SG stocks with the later swivel position, but they’re harder to date. For example, in my gun room I have three Super Grades with the early swivel position. The earliest, S/N 3789 (early 1937) has 18-line checkering, while S/Ns 13264 (early 1938) and 26401 (1939) have 20-line checkering. The SG Carbine I posted yesterday, S/N 21064 (1939) also has the early swivel position and 20-line checkering. I do not believe any of these guns were re-checkered at any point. Small sample, I know, but I’ve also discussed this with some dealer friends (Dave Morris and Justin Hale) and their observations coincide with mine (and Whitakers).
So, short story is that in my opinion, the 18-line checkering on Roger’s SG Carbine stock is period correct…
Just my take,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
December 9, 2002
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Roger,
I sure do like you’re example and find the knowledgeable comments interesting once again. My first thought we’re when I saw it yesterday was I would probably gone after it, if I liked the asking price!
I was glad to see a couple expert members help us out with they’re knowledge.
Thanks for Sharing!
Tony
November 5, 2014
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Hi Roger-
Yup… That’s the right floor plate. If the front sight is 0.310″ tall as you say, then everything about your gun looks period correct to me except the added receiver sight. Like the one I posted yesterday, I can’t find fault. I just can’t prove the factory put it together…
BTW… Did you ever take it out of the stock? If not, don’t do it on my account, there’s nothing to prove. But if you did, I’m curious if the barrel is stamped “SUPER” underneath and whether there are any other numbers (besides “1906”, “triangle I” inspection mark, and barrel date) stamped on the barrel or in the stock barrel channel.
I know that pre-war barrels are not supposed to be stamped “SUPER” (and the vast majority are not), but I’ve seen a handful of pre-war and transition guns that are stamped and they’re often guns with special order features. Rarely there are other things (order or assembly numbers?) stamped as well. But I don’t know if they’re “real” or not…
Cheers,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
January 27, 1992
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My curiosity got to me. Here is the barrel date.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Roger-
That’s totally correct lMHO… The “H” and “u” are typical barrel inspection stamps. I’ve spent way too much time studying M70 inspection stamps… The “triangle I”, “2” and “3” inspection stamps on the bedding flat are on most everything up to about 1952… Much longer time than the “triangle I” stamp lasted on any other M70 part…
If anyone is interested, this is what it should look like… If you disagree, PLEASE educate me!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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