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1895 winchester with British Proof marks
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February 16, 2022 - 9:32 pm
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Hi, I am both new to this forum and to the WACA. I have a very nice 1895 in .405 WCF. It has British proof marks, I know there are other rifles out there with the same markings. Does anyone know if the London Proof house will have any info on the riles they proof? if so how does a person get that info? Mark Douglas of Cinnabar Gun Works told me about this site, Great Guy and he does great work. Thanks Kent

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February 17, 2022 - 5:28 am
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Good question, but I do not know the answer. Hopefully Alan (our resident UK expert) will see your question and educate all of us.

Bert

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February 17, 2022 - 1:08 pm
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Another fella to ask would be Pete Holder, who also lives in the U.K. and is a very active collector/ dealer. Pete Holder Antique American firearms should get Him. I do know They had a couple of different proofing houses, like Birmingham and London but He will have a lot more info.

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February 17, 2022 - 1:57 pm
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Welcome, Kent. Looking forward to reading more about your 1895.

 

Mike

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February 17, 2022 - 5:57 pm
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Pete Holder.  http://www.peteholder.com

[email protected]

UK Tel.  01483 277788.

He always has nice Colts.

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February 17, 2022 - 6:00 pm
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Post pictures I’m in the uk , I’ll try and help .

London proof house are very good at responding . Birmingham proof house are poor at responding 

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February 17, 2022 - 11:26 pm
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I hope this works. I know enough about computers to know how to lose all the data I just entered. lol Thank you for the help folks1895-proof-mark1.jpgImage Enlarger1895-Proof-Mark2.jpgImage Enlarger

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February 18, 2022 - 1:25 am
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Kent Johnson said
I hope this works. I know enough about computers to know how to lose all the data I just entered. lol Thank you for the help folks1895-proof-mark1.jpgImage Enlarger1895-Proof-Mark2.jpgImage Enlarger  

Very cool.  It’s fun to think about the original purchaser, what he ordered for, and if it actually made the trip.  There’s a good probability it was ordered with the Dark Continent in mind.

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February 18, 2022 - 1:49 am
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steve004 said

 It’s fun to think about the original purchaser, what he ordered for, and if it actually made the trip.  There’s a good probability it was ordered with the Dark Continent in mind.  

By someone who had read T.R.’s “African Game Trails.”

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February 18, 2022 - 4:16 am
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That’s what I am hoping to find out. Who knows it could have been in both Africa and India, At the time this rifle was made the sun never set on the British Empire.

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February 18, 2022 - 5:55 am
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Kent

To find a British proofed 1895 in 405 has been on my radar for a very long time. Congratulations I am envious LaughSmile

 Doug

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February 18, 2022 - 8:07 am
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Can you carefully take pictures of the smaller marks ? 
your rifle obviously was tested using  cordite.

but I can’t make out the smaller marks 

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February 18, 2022 - 6:32 pm
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18953.jpgImage Enlargerhere you go. Thanks for the help

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February 18, 2022 - 8:33 pm
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Back your camera off at least another 6″ so it can focus.

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February 18, 2022 - 9:37 pm
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18954.jpgImage Enlarger

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February 19, 2022 - 2:30 am
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[email protected] said
Post pictures I’m in the uk , I’ll try and help .

London proof house are very good at responding . Birmingham proof house are poor at responding   

Interesting you said this. I have had a similar experience when I have been trying to drill down on the use of the word Cordite or Cord Mk1 in the proof markings.

 

One of the proof houses never replied after a few reminders and the other one said they did not know. Useless!

 

Regards

 

Alan

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February 19, 2022 - 2:37 am
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Kent Johnson said
18954.jpgImage Enlarger  

Kent, your photography skills are getting better, well done. The last photo shows one side of the rifle but the rifle appears to have markings on the other side. Can you please take another photo of this R/H side.

 

Also taking the photo outside on an overcast day will give good results. Try to avoid a white background behind the rifle as it throws of the light sensor in the camera. Finally, rather than just putting the rifle flat on the surface have someone hold the rifle and rotate it so that you can find the optimum position to show all the markings in focus and without some being shaded.

Quite often a rifle will have two sets of markings which it has got during its life in the UK and its important to see both of these so that a more detailed answer can be given.

Regards

 

Alan

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February 19, 2022 - 4:26 am
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There are no markings on the right side. Is it possible that the rifle was sent to England, proofed, and either sent to the person who ordered it or that person picked it up and left to go somewhere else in the commonwealth, then returned to the states with the rifle? I know that’s a lot of maybe’s. Kent

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February 19, 2022 - 12:39 pm
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You rifle was test fired with cordite 

but also has London proof marks for 

Black powder and Nitro powder.

unfortunately I can’t find any information as to when it was tested but cordite was less common after ww2, I think ? 

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February 19, 2022 - 11:29 pm
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The markings are for the London proof house. They could be 1904 to 1925 or 1925 to 1955.

However, as the ghastly NOTBRITISHMAKE marking is absent I would go with 1904 to 1925. The NOTBRITISHMAKE being used from 1925 to 1955.

 

What year do you think the rifle was made?

 

Regards

 

Alan

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