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clarence said
But you were living in the days of smokeless powder with non-corrosive priming, the two great improvements (along with lower cost) that allowed .22s to surpass .32s in general popularity.
Yes, but so was the gun that started this thread. (not the primers necessarily) 22’s and shotguns have always been the most popular and most used guns for the average family. Try to find either in very nice condition.
For mrcvs, I bought the rifle at the WACA Show in Nov of 2002. According to my records, I paid $2,500. With the special sights and excellent condition I was happy to find it and still am. It was just a little to late to letter. Burt liked the sights and never ask what I gave for it. I buy what I like and if I make a mistake in value, I just live with it. RDB
rogertherelic said
For mrcvs, I bought the rifle at the WACA Show in Nov of 2002. According to my records, I paid $2,500. With the special sights and excellent condition I was happy to find it and still am. It was just a little to late to letter. Burt liked the sights and never ask what I gave for it. I buy what I like and if I make a mistake in value, I just live with it. RDB
.44-40 is a desirable caliber and your example has condition. I would think that $2500, even in 2002, wasn’t horrible for this rifle. Maybe the value hasn’t kept up with inflation, but what is it worth now? Can’t really be less than 2k, and possibly what you paid for it. Or am I wrong?
The “S” coded Lyman No. 103 tang sight is easily worth $500 all by itself, and if listed on ebay, it would likely sell for a higher amount. I am sure that Roger could recoup his purchase price (not accounting for inflation).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
The “S” coded Lyman No. 103 tang sight is easily worth $500 all by itself, and if listed on ebay, it would likely sell for a higher amount. I am sure that Roger could recoup his purchase price (not accounting for inflation).Bert
Are you saying this is a $2000 rifle and, adding in the sight, a $2500 package, in today’s market? For a .44-40 rifle, a Winchester, and with condition, this seems low.
But, then again, the Winchester 1885 never got the respect of the Winchester lever guns from the same era.
Ian,
It is the fact that it is a “low-wall” versus a high-wall that reduces the value in the collector market. Standard Sporting Rifle low-wall rifles seldom ever exceed $3K unless that have lots of original case color and some special-order features. Roger’s rifle has neither… it is simply a very nice-looking Plane Jane low-wall rifle. The Lyman No. 103 was added after the fact.
Berrt
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Ian,It is the fact that it is a “low-wall” versus a high-wall that reduces the value in the collector market. Standard Sporting Rifle low-wall rifles seldom ever exceed $3K unless that have lots of original case color and some special-order features. Roger’s rifle has neither… it is simply a very nice-looking Plane Jane low-wall rifle. The Lyman No. 103 was added after the fact.
Berrt
Yes, the low wall vs high wall thing. I forget that sometimes. I value condition over whether originality. Also, the one in the upcoming auction has a case coloured receiver and that is more valuable to me, and others, vs a blued receiver. Neither are antique, however. I believe case coloured receivers were phased out in August 1901, just like with the Model 1886?
Yes, Winchester ceased case color finishing all models (Single Shot, 1886, 1890) in August 1901.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Yes, Winchester ceased case color finishing all models (Single Shot, 1886, 1890) in August 1901.
Bert – was it available for a period of time on a special order basis after 8/01? Or did they just stop the process completely?
steve004 said
Bert H. said
Yes, Winchester ceased case color finishing all models (Single Shot, 1886, 1890) in August 1901.
Bert – was it available for a period of time on a special order basis after 8/01? Or did they just stop the process completely?
Steve,
Per Winchester’s literature, it was no longer available as a standard or special order finish on any model.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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clarence said
TXGunNut said
A 44 or even a 38WCF would have made a great pest control or “back door” gun for a rural home. No need to disturb the neighbors or livestock with a full sized rifle cartridge, IMHO
.32 RF could do the same thing cheaper, & DID…or there wouldn’t be so many of them still around. Old McDonald could buy two Stevens Favorites or Rem #4s for the price of one Win SS.
Good point, Clarence! Must have been quite the cartridge. I’m thinking any coyotes or feral dogs I’d anchor with a LW chambered in 32RF should feel honored. Until that rifle and ammo comes along I’ll be forced to dispatch them with an (R-word) chambered in 22M, formerly in 17HMR. A bit noisier than a 32RF but I’m still getting even with my neighbors for letting their kids ride dirt bikes and ATV’s up and down the road. 
Mike
November 7, 2015
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Chuck said
Growing up there were always loaded guns around the house. But, the go to gun was a 22 rifle sitting on the steps from the kitchen to the back door. This door was used to leave the house and go to the garage, barn and driveway. The front door was not usually used but there was another 22 rifle just steps away. My dad’s room overlooked the driveway and he had a SKS next to this window. He had a 9mm under his side of the bed, a 22 pistol in the mud room and a 7mm Mauser upstairs. Shotguns were not his first choice but he had a few. In the country my dad always said if someone shows up unexpected they were either lost or trouble.
I’m probably a shotgun man, Chuck. I’m never more than a few steps from a Winchester 1300 Riot Gun and I shoot a round of skeet with one of them several times a year. There may or may not be a few 1911’s and God forbid quite possibly a black rifle around but unexpected visitors will likely have to deal with gazing into a .729” abyss. And yes, I’ve competed extensively with all three.
Mike
Bert H. said
Roger,Because you asked, I went and found you another 44 WCF low-wall rifle that is available;
Bert
Sold for $1150, before any tax, shipping, or buyer’s premium is accounted for. Amazingly low, these don’t bring what one would think they should.
mrcvs said
Sold for $1150, before any tax, shipping, or buyer’s premium is accounted for. Amazingly low, these don’t bring what one would think they should.
But that’s not really the true price–tax & premium are part of it. Auctioneer’s hope, of course, is that bidders will “forget” this.
January 26, 2011
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mrcvs said
Bert H. said
Roger,
Because you asked, I went and found you another 44 WCF low-wall rifle that is available;
Bert
Sold for $1150, before any tax, shipping, or buyer’s premium is accounted for. Amazingly low, these don’t bring what one would think they should.
I guess I wouldn’t expect a whole lot more for a restored gun. One that was all original that looked like that might go for double.
~Gary~
pdog72 said
I guess I wouldn’t expect a whole lot more for a restored gun. One that was all original that looked like that might go for dou
That was a restored gun? How could you tell from poor photos? If so, the price was not low!
January 26, 2011
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clarence said
pdog72 said
I guess I wouldn’t expect a whole lot more for a restored gun. One that was all original that looked like that might go for dou
That was a restored gun? How could you tell from poor photos? If so, the price was not low!
Thier description on the website clearly stated the barrel was re-blued. Also, the receiver should have been blued at this time, I believe. The CC didn’t look right to me anyway. The wood finish also looked to be added to. Honestly, it just looked way too good at first glance. Again, that’s probably why the price was so low. I’d take Roger’s rifle any day before this one.
~Gary~
pdog72 said
clarence said
pdog72 said
I guess I wouldn’t expect a whole lot more for a restored gun. One that was all original that looked like that might go for dou
That was a restored gun? How could you tell from poor photos? If so, the price was not low!
Thier description on the website clearly stated the barrel was re-blued. Also, the receiver should have been blued at this time, I believe. The CC didn’t look right to me anyway. The wood finish also looked to be added to. Honestly, it just looked way too good at first glance. Again, that’s probably why the price was so low. I’d take Roger’s rifle any day before this one.
So would I! I really like Roger’s rifle! I didn’t look closely at this one at all. From what I could see from the link it was case coloured, and I was just going to see if this would bring more than what Roger’s was guessed to be worth.
I didn’t have access to anything other than poor resolution photographs on my phone which you could not tell one way or another if restored.
If it IS restored, it sold for more than it’s worth!
pdog72 said
Thier description on the website clearly stated the barrel was re-blued.
Not so: “Single shot falling block rifle, Includes, Front bead and rear adjustable tang peep sight, Octagon blued barrel, Case hardened receiver and lever, Plain wooden straight grip stock and forend, Case hardened crescent”
January 26, 2011
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clarence said
pdog72 said
Thier description on the website clearly stated the barrel was re-blued.
Not so: “Single shot falling block rifle, Includes, Front bead and rear adjustable tang peep sight, Octagon blued barrel, Case hardened receiver and lever, Plain wooden straight grip stock and forend, Case hardened crescent”
Clarence,
Sometimes it’s worth your time to actually dig a little deeper before taking a hard stance on something. Cheers………
(CR) Winchester Model 1885 Low Wall .44 WCF Rifle | Pa Auction Center (hibid.com)
~Gary~
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