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December 21, 2006
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What’s Your take on this piece 1873 s.r.c ser.#20899 with a 20″ o.b. Letter says “carbine, 1876, changed to o.b. 1878. The gun is at Kidd auctions in Melancton Ontario
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
May 23, 2009
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Is there a website link you can post? Or pictures?
Based on the serial number range, the dates seem plausible.
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 2, 2009
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Looks like it is what the letter says it to be. Left the factory and went into the warehouse as standard carbine, then pulled from the warehouse, sent back into the factory and changed to a 20″ short rifle. They didn’t discard the ring and staple and used the original carbine stock. Neat gun.
July 16, 2013
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December 21, 2006
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I guess My question is; would You call this a carbine or a rifle, seeing as the letter does not say changed to rifle plus it retains the saddle ring but obviously has the rifle fore end cap. I don’t know how to post a picture from another site, the gunis at Kidd Family Auctions Melancton Ont. Lot #3917
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
May 2, 2009
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There are quite a few Rifles with the staple holes plugged where they used a carbine receiver to make a rifle so It could of had the holes plugged and someone put a staple back in it but I would call it a rifle . I will have to check my data on that gun tonight.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
March 31, 2009
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Bob, do short rifles have carbine butts, rifle butts or both.
May 2, 2009
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Chuck,
Short rifles would have a rifle butt. There are rifles that letter with carbine butt plates and visa-versa.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
December 21, 2006
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Ya’ , this one is all rifle on the front end and all s.r.c. on the back end, complete with saddle ring.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
May 2, 2009
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After checking my data there are quite a few of these carbines changed to octagon barrels and they did retain the carbine butt and saddle ring. Here is a copy of a letter that someone asked Cody to do research on the subject. They had found 259 carbines changed to octagon barrel with no mention of barrel length between serial 17835 and 22249.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
June 4, 2017
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This is an octagon first model carbine that is clearly documented in factory records. It is rare and special. Sometimes you don’t get condition with rare. The right buyers will pay up if they think the barrel was factory 20″. It does not letter 20″. T/R
November 19, 2006
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TR said
This is an octagon first model carbine that is clearly documented in factory records. It is rare and special. Sometimes you don’t get condition with rare. The right buyers will pay up if they think the barrel was factory 20″. It does not letter 20″. T/R
It is a rare piece but I would be a lot more impressed if the 20 inch barrel lettered.
November 19, 2006
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Henry Mero said
Ya’ , this one is all rifle on the front end and all s.r.c. on the back end, complete with saddle ring.
You see the same thing in Marlins. Here is a M1894 short rifle I have with 20 inch half octagon rifle barrel front end and carbine rear with ring and carbine butt. Neat that it’s a takedown too:
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November 13, 2008
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The letter states carbine and changed to octagon. No part says changed to octagon rifle. It is not a rifle. Call it what it is , which is an octagon barrelled carbine. As bob pointed out in the extended research these were carbines changed to octagon barrel and retained the saddle ring and carbine buttstock. The standard barrel length for the carbine was 20 inches and therefore standard and will not be mentioned. As the research states there were 259 recorded as such. It also clearly states any barrel length not considered the standard length of 20 inches was mentioned. 26, 28& 30. It even states a 24 inch. Which if these were considered a rifle would not state that as that was the standard rifle length. Super rare gun .
Jeremy Scott.
WACA LIFE MEMBER, CFM MEMBER, ABKA MEMBER, JSSC MEMBER, MNO HISTORIAN
November 19, 2006
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Jeremy Scott. said
The letter states carbine and changed to octagon. No part says changed to octagon rifle. It is not a rifle. Call it what it is , which is an octagon barrelled carbine. As bob pointed out in the extended research these were carbines changed to octagon barrel and retained the saddle ring and carbine buttstock. The standard barrel length for the carbine was 20 inches and therefore standard and will not be mentioned. As the research states there were 259 recorded as such. It also clearly states any barrel length not considered the standard length of 20 inches was mentioned. 26, 28& 30. It even states a 24 inch. Which if these were considered a rifle would not state that as that was the standard rifle length. Super rare gun .
I see the logic of what you are saying.
June 4, 2017
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Jeremy Scott. said
The letter states carbine and changed to octagon. No part says changed to octagon rifle. It is not a rifle. Call it what it is , which is an octagon barrelled carbine. As bob pointed out in the extended research these were carbines changed to octagon barrel and retained the saddle ring and carbine buttstock. The standard barrel length for the carbine was 20 inches and therefore standard and will not be mentioned. As the research states there were 259 recorded as such. It also clearly states any barrel length not considered the standard length of 20 inches was mentioned. 26, 28& 30. It even states a 24 inch. Which if these were considered a rifle would not state that as that was the standard rifle length. Super rare gun .
Good point if the front half is all original. Good pictures might tell, having it your hands with forearm removed will tell. T/R
March 14, 2022
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Rick C
March 14, 2022
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I see it as a legit octagon carbine. The letter shows it was a carbine serialized Aug 1876 and stayed at the factory for more than two years until Nov 1878 before being shipped, but shipped with an octagon barrel. There would be no reason to state barrel length in the letter as it’s a carbine(20”) standard. The reason for the rifle front end? a carbine barrel ring wouldn’t fit an octagon barrel so a rifle forend cap and forestock was needed. Jmo.
Rick C
February 19, 2013
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steve004 said
Henry Mero said
Ya’ , this one is all rifle on the front end and all s.r.c. on the back end, complete with saddle ring.
You see the same thing in Marlins. Here is a M1894 short rifle I have with 20 inch half octagon rifle barrel front end and carbine rear with ring and carbine butt. Neat that it’s a takedown too:
<a href="
View post on imgur.com” src=”
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Man, that is a beauty of a Marlin!!!! I wouldn’t mind that in my safe.
November 7, 2015
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That makes sense, Rick. This carbine blurs the line a bit but if the ledger says “carbine” that works for me.
I wish you’d quit posting those pics of those really cool “M” words, Steve! I sold off my outliers to focus my limited resources on Winchesters and that sweet 94 is a bit distracting.If you’re not careful Bert will post a pic of his “R” word or maybe even talk about his old red Dodge. 😉
Mike
