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I’m looking for a 1873 carbine, Does anyone know of the production numbers of the two calibers 44-40 vs 38-40 ) in comparison ? I’ve read the 38-40 is more rare, but probably not as “sexy” as the well known and fabled 44-40. Anyone selling ? Price differential ?
Thanks for any input.
Bill
Bill,
There are 90.6% in 44, 5.3% in 38 and 4.1% in 32 in my survey. As to price it comes down to the collector. Some like the top dog 44 and then you have the rarity collector. I like condition so the 44 would be the one I’m more apt to find with condition. If I found a 32 or 38 with condition then its a price consideration.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Just carbines.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thanks Bob. Wow, that is a dramatic disparity between the two.
As to killing power, does the velocity argument come into play in these early calibers ?
Bill
The disparity should not be a shock, when you consider the 1873 model was only 44/40 for the first 6 years. To someone on horse back the carbine was the equivalent of our modern day assault weapon. The fact that you could buy a Colt that used the same ammo was a plus. Then comes the 38 and 32, ammo was not as available at first and the 44 was the standard. They liked the 44 then and collectors like them now, but the 38 and 32 are less common. T/R
Blueliner said
Thanks Bob. Wow, that is a dramatic disparity between the two.As to killing power, does the velocity argument come into play in these early calibers ?
Bill
Bill, the black powder loaded .38 WCF (.38-40) is about equivalent to the modern .40 S&W ballistics-wise. In a rifle, it’s probably better than the .40 S&W. Both .38 WCF and .44 WCF had some hot smokeless loads back in the day that were designed for the 1892 rifle, but people being people, guns were damaged and injuries happened. Especially when hot loads were used in SAA revolvers and 1873 rifles which was not authorized.
Winchester’s 1895 catalog said the .44 WCF was loaded with 40 grains of black powder and a 200 grain bullet. It was supposed to give 1,245 FPS in a rifle with 24 inch barrel. Not too shabby for those days.
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
Bill,
Great stuff and observations. I really appreciate the data you put out.
Thanks,
Bill
Blueliner said
I’m looking for a 1873 carbine, Does anyone know of the production numbers of the two calibers 44-40 vs 38-40 ) in comparison ? I’ve read the 38-40 is more rare, but probably not as “sexy” as the well known and fabled 44-40. Anyone selling ? Price differential ?Thanks for any input.
Bill
Bill I have both calibers in rifle. I also have a carbine in 44WCF as well. I’m happy with the rifle and carbine in 44WCF but the 38 rifle has the stepped receiver & I can’t bring myself to part with it, considering it’s high condition with xx wood & oil finish.
Maybe Bob has the numbers on how many 38 rifles in his survey.
RickC
Bill Hockett said
Bill, the black powder loaded .38 WCF (.38-40) is about equivalent to the modern .40 S&W ballistics-wise. In a rifle, it’s probably better than the .40 S&W. Both .38 WCF and .44 WCF had some hot smokeless loads back in the day that were designed for the 1892 rifle, but people being people, guns were damaged and injuries happened. Especially when hot loads were used in SAA revolvers and 1873 rifles which was not authorized.
Winchester’s 1895 catalog said the .44 WCF was loaded with 40 grains of black powder and a 200 grain bullet. It was supposed to give 1,245 FPS in a rifle with 24 inch barrel. Not too shabby for those days.
Shot some new factory 44 WCF last week. Averaged a little over 1000 FPS.
RickC said
Was it Winchester factory jacketed loads?
Winchester Factory jacketed soft point 200 grains.
Chuck said
Winchester Factory jacketed soft point 200 grains.
Thank you Chuck. Kindly appreciated. They have them advertised as 1190 fps.
RickC
RickC said
Thank you Chuck. Kindly appreciated. They have them advertised as 1190 fps.
RickC
Here is what I posted last week’
Shot the 73 again yesterday. I messed up and left the target at 100 yds. Wasted a lot of ammo trying to get back on target. Did shoot 18 rounds through the chronograph. Winchester Factory 200 gr. JSP. The mean/average was 1025 fps. The extreme spread was 153 fps. Fastest was 1081 fps and the lowest was 928 fps. The standard deviation was 36. These numbers are a lot better than the cowboys loads but far from what I would call precisely loaded ammo. I didn’t have any of my hand loads to shoot so I can’t compare.
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