What a find it would be to get a 66 CF box of ammo.  When Doug Beneck died I wonder where is ammo collection ended up?  I know he had another 66 CF and a lot of Henry ammo.

1873man said
Talked to Ray Giles today at Tulsa about Winchester 66 CF and he told me what he knew. He heard that a Winchester employee had a box of Winchester 66 CF with mimeographed label which he said would have been around in that time period. The employee collected boxes for the 40 years he work at Winchester and then for 20 years after he retired. When he died, his wife didn’t sell the collection for another 10 years. Ray bought the collection but there wasn’t a 66 CF box.

Bob

  

I wonder if this former Winchester employee had a box of .70-150’s?  Not that there ever was a box of .70-150’s but I recall hearing that a former employee had “packets” of .70-150’s.  I think they were wrapped in brown paper with a string around them.  Probably no external markings.  But I seem to recall he had several of these packets.  I vaguely recall the speculation that his wife might have thrown them in the trash after he passed.  I can’t verify that but we know stuff like that happens all the time as remaining relative often have no idea of the value of these items.  Often firearms will make their way on the market but obsolete ammunition, old catalogs, correspondence and so on don’t make it.  I can imagine that a single round of .44 cf looks like nothing to 99.99 of gun guys and even less so to the general population. 

Nice collection.  I feel lucky just to have one.

Chuck said
Nice collection.  I feel lucky just to have one.

  

Thanks Chuck, as you know it takes a while to find and acquire, these pieces. The best part, as you’re also aware of is the learning and the great camaraderie that goes with it. Like you stated in the past on some of you’re hard to find and yet desirable cartridges, they are never cheap, when we find them, and sometimes can be a little on the ridiculous side of the $ spectrum!

Maverick said
Anthony,

That has to be one of the most complete 44 Henry Centerfire collections a man could ask for. The Function Dummy and Salesman Dummy have to be the cream of the crop and very very rare. I doubt there ever was a “Board Dummy” ever made. If so, I don’t know what cartridge board it would have gone with.

It is interesting seeing the French made cartridge next to the WRACo and their noticeable differences.

Thanks for sharing your collection!

Sincerely,

Maverick

  

Coming from you Brady, that’s saying something, with you’re cartridge experience. I really wasn’t sure if there was a Board Dummy for this cartridge or not. As a comparison, in my mind, how many .70-150, guns we’re made? Yet a board dummy for the .70-150, exists! Compared to the 1000 model 1866 src. Winchesters that went to Brazil! With Winchester we know to never say never.

I also thought the French mad cartridge was fascinating.

Anthony

Chuck said
My books on the rimfire cartridges were mailed on Monday so I can’t really comment on what Henry rounds will be in it.  Lou and I talked about these a couple years ago and I was very surprised to hear how many other countries loaded this round.  Winchester wasn’t making cartridge boards that early.

If you can ever see a cartridge board that shows the 70-150 take a good look or a picture of it especially the base.  These rounds can be found but almost all of them are fakes made from a 12 ga case.  Unless they look exactly like the board dummy.  It is on the 1890 single W board. 

Lou’s book has 24 pages that cover the 44 Henry Rimfire. Lou’s book doesn’t cover any center-fire cartridges, so sadly the 44 Henry C.F. is not in his book. I have no idea if he is going to do a center-fire cartridge book. Unless it is already in the works and close to being finished, I have doubts he will publish such a book, but would gladly welcome such a book. It took him a long time to publish his rimfire book. 

Winchester’s earliest cartridge board called the 1874 board by collectors has 3 of the different types of 44 Henry R.F. on it. But regarding the 44 Henry C.F. it being loaded in the 1890s, Winchester had been made cartridge boards for some time. But of the 1890 & 1897 boards, as far as I know, don’t have it on them.

Anthony said

As a comparison, in my mind, how many .70-150, guns we’re made? Yet a board dummy for the .70-150, exists! Compared to the 1000 model 1866 src. Winchesters that went to Brazil! With Winchester we know to never say never.  

 The 1890 board features the 70-150 along with some other rare cartridges, the 50-140 Express comes to mind as another example. I have no idea how many 1890 boards were made. I’m not sure if the 1890 boards were numbered, don’t think so. But as a comparison I know the 1897 Boards were numbered. Stamped on the back in black ink. The highest numbered 1897 board I’m aware of was #1,927. Say we rounded that up to 2,000 boards made. If every 1890 board had a 70-150 Board Dummy on it and we had a similar number of 1890 boards made as the 1897. That would make quite a few 70-150 board dummies having been made. There are some fairly simple ways to tell if the 70-150 is a fake or not, especially if it is supposed to be a board dummy. Which I won’t go into here. Most fakes are pretty obvious fakes. There have even been one or two companies or individuals in the past that made some reproductions. There are even a few faked boards out there.

As far as I know, no one has ever done a survey of Winchester Cartridge Boards. It might be a good survey to start! As far as board experts go, the Goles are probably most knowledgeable on them specifically than anyone else out there.

I suppose if 44 Henry C.F. “Function Dummys” and “Salesman Dummys” were made. Its not that much of a stretch that a Board Dummy could have been made. Would imagine though it would be possibly a smaller board or like a salesman’s sample case type board. Kind of like the shot shell case Shuey did an article on a little while back. Maybe such a board or case in sitting tucked away in the jungles of Brazil!

Sincerely,

Maverick

Wow,  I guess i should feel lucky to have a one of these cartridges!  I have one of the french made ones.

On a side note, how rare is a 44 Henry Flat shot cartridge worth?

The center fire 44 cartridges are really rare.  I have never seen one for sale.  But I haven’t looked for one.  Just like the 7.62 Russian and the 303 British most of the 44 CF ammo went where the rifles went.  The Russian and the 303 British were not easy to find an early WRACo example.  In fact I found a box of 303 Brit before I ever found a single. The Russian has a tin primer and not a copper/brass and is the only such primer in my singles collection other than the Lee Navy.