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WTB original Winchester factory marked leather sling for pre-64 model 70
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January 25, 2025 - 5:16 pm
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Want to by original Winchester factory marked leather sling for pre-64 model 70 to go with my newly acquired unfired super-grade African model 70 made in 1957.  The sling I am looking for is similar to the one’s listed on Guns International awhile back–see below links.  Please PM me if you have one you are willing to sell.

20241102_160606.jpgImage Enlarger20241102_160623.jpgImage Enlarger20241102_160801-1.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

 

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/parts—ammo—accessories/collectibles—winchester/vintage-winchester-pre-64-rifle-sling.cfm?gun_id=100586821

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-70-super-grade/winchester-pre-64-model-70-458-win-mag-super-grade.cfm?gun_id=102703119

Thanks,

Don

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January 25, 2025 - 6:10 pm
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Don,

The real expert on slings is JWA, but I don’t believe Winchester marked any slings for their pre-64 rifles.  They were subcontracted to a few firms and came unmarked.  To the best of my knowledge, all the slings with the “WINCHESTER” marking are quite recent (1980’s and later) creations.  

BRP

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January 25, 2025 - 8:21 pm
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Blue Ridge Parson,  You are correct the Pre 64 Model 70 Super Grade slings were unmarked.

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January 25, 2025 - 9:05 pm
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Bo Rich said
Blue Ridge Parson,  You are correct the Pre 64 Model 70 Super Grade slings were unmarked.

  

Thanks guys, the hunt just got a bit more complicated.   How would one identify a true factory original leather sling for a pre-64 model 70 super grade?  Are there any tell-tale features I should be looking for?

Don

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January 25, 2025 - 10:14 pm
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Hi Don-

As has been said, Winchester never had their name stamped on “Winchester” slings during the pre-64 period.  The sling that came with the African was more of a “carry strap” than it was like the M1907 or Whelen type slings that Winchester sold/cataloged for many years and that JWA has written about. 

Just a little “plug”… Even for people (like me) who don’t collect Winchester rimfires, Jeff’s M69 book and upcoming M75 book are worth the money for all the accurate information he presents on “accessories” like slings!!!

Anyway, these photos are of the sling with one of my Africans.  My other African has an identical sling, and they appear to match the period ads Winchester ran picturing the African.  That said, I have heard that at some point Remington offered an identical sling (also not branded), so that’s either good (easier to find) or bad (b/c you don’t know whether the sling was originally on a Winchester or Remington)… If anyone has better info, PLEASE post…

African-sling-1.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-2.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-3.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-4.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-5.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-6.jpegImage Enlarger

Best,

Lou

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January 26, 2025 - 2:30 am
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dearhunter,

I purchased a sling like the ones in your first post sometime in the 80s. It was new in the plastic bag. Still have it – never mounted on a rifle.

Lou is right on – not sure who made these Winchester marked slings, but they are later than 1964.

RR

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January 26, 2025 - 4:40 am
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Didn’t Winchester sling keepers always have the “diamond” shaped staples?  RDB

003.JPGImage Enlarger

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January 26, 2025 - 5:10 am
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Don-

As has been said, Winchester never had their name stamped on “Winchester” slings during the pre-64 period.  The sling that came with the African was more of a “carry strap” than it was like the M1907 or Whelen type slings that Winchester sold/cataloged for many years and that JWA has written about. 

Just a little “plug”… Even for people (like me) who don’t collect Winchester rimfires, Jeff’s M69 book and upcoming M75 book are worth the money for all the accurate information he presents on “accessories” like slings!!!

Anyway, these photos are of the sling with one of my Africans.  My other African has an identical sling, and they appear to match the period ads Winchester ran picturing the African.  That said, I have heard that at some point Remington offered an identical sling (also not branded), so that’s either good (easier to find) or bad (b/c you don’t know whether the sling was originally on a Winchester or Remington)… If anyone has better info, PLEASE post…

African-sling-1.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-2.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-3.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-4.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-5.jpegImage EnlargerAfrican-sling-6.jpegImage Enlarger

Best,

Lou

  

OMG Lou!!  Would you believe about 3 months ago, I was digging through a junk box at the same gun store where that model 70 African showed up 2 months later and found a leather sling exactly as the one in your photos?!  Don’t know why I picked it up and bought it at the time since I really had no use for it, but it only costed me $2 so thought what the heck!!  After I bought that African, I installed the super-grade swivels on it just as a place-holder until I found an original sling.  Well, it turns out that I had picked up an original by accident and didn’t know it until I just saw your post.  How lucky is that!!!  Looks like I have just completed the entire package now and am happy as hell!  Sling is in new condition and matches the rifle perfectly too.  Time to buy a Lotto ticket I suppose!

Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge,

Don

P1090807.JPGImage EnlargerP1090808.JPGImage EnlargerP1090809.JPGImage EnlargerP1090810.JPGImage EnlargerP1090811.JPGImage EnlargerP1090812.JPGImage EnlargerP1090813.JPGImage EnlargerP1090814.JPGImage EnlargerP1090466.JPGImage Enlarger

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January 26, 2025 - 3:05 pm
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Hi Don-

If it was the same gun shop there’s a good chance that is the original sling that came with the rifle.  For reference, this is a clip from the Model 70 ad run in the August 1956 issue of American Rifleman showing the style of carry strap that came on the African.

August-56-African-Ad-Clip-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

Hi RDB-

My “expertise” on Winchester slings is limited to what JWA has written about them…  Laugh  My understanding is that the three characteristics of slings sold by Winchester during the period pre-64 M70s were manufactured were that they have a single line embossed edge, distinctive two-rivet frogs, and two blued diamond staples in the leather keepers (exactly like your photo).  They offered both M1907 pattern (two-piece, two frog), and Whelen pattern slings, 1-inch and 1 1/4-inch width, and two different colors of leather, but always with those three characteristics and never marked with either a the maker’s name or “Winchester”…

Best,

Lou

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January 26, 2025 - 5:01 pm
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“I think” I thought I read somewhere that the pre-64 slings were not marked Winchester, but had a four-digit number stamped on them – am I just thinking I read that or maybe read what someone believes? 

Dan

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January 26, 2025 - 5:56 pm
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Interestingly that the Super Grade rifle was issued with the “target” style sling.  While the African was sold with a carrying strap.   You would think that there would be the same but they are not.  This example will be found in the Retail Price catalog Price catalog  Dec. 15, 1956.  With the African being the only Super Grade style Model 70 made after 1960 ( although I think they only made very few Super Grades other then the African after 1959).  It would seem that the carry strap was only used at this time.  On page nine of the 1963 Retail Price catalog there is a picture of a special order Model 70 with a carrying strap.   Also, I have a Model 725 Remington made in 1958.  I keep it around, because when most people see it they assume that it is a Model 70 Feather Weight.  Then they take a better look at it, and they can tell the difference.  My gun has the original carrying strap.  It is similar to the Winchester carrying strap, but you can see the difference to distinguish either one.  Now, Remington did issue a carrying strap for many years for the 700 BDL.  I bought a new 700 BDL 7 M/M REM Mag. in 1978 that had one in the box.  I no longer own that rifle, so I can not confirm if it is like the carrying strap on the 725.

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January 26, 2025 - 6:11 pm
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Be gentle with me – what is the difference between a sling and a carrying strap? 

Dan

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January 26, 2025 - 7:24 pm
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For Dan-

This is a clip from the 1941 Winchester General catalog.

Slings-1941-General-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In general, rifle “slings” are adjustable for use as shooting aids, while “straps” are only adjustable for length, i.e. carrying a rifle on the shoulder.  Winchester offered both M1907 military type (2-piece) slings and “N.R.A. improved” Whelen type (1-piece) slings in the 1930s-40s.  The adjustable front part of the M1907 “sling” pictured above was intended to form a loop through which the shooter placed his/her arm and pulled it tight to steady the rifle while aiming.  That’s how the US military taught recruits to shoot in WWII… The Whelen type sling was adjustable but could only be used in “hasty sling” mode. 

Clip below is from the 1938 Jobber (J-A) catalog listing both types as well as the carry strap.

Slings-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

Interestingly, the sling pictured on the Super Grade in the 1937 Model 70 “green brochure” is the N.R.A. Improved (Whelen) sling, not the M1907 type.  

M70-Super-Grade-1937-Green-Brochure-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In the 1937-38 Catalogs the Super Grade is shown with the Whelen sling, while the Target rifles are shown with the M1907 style and the Albree Keeper that was supplied, along with the sling, on first year M70 Target rifles

M70-SG-and-Nat-Match-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

That’s about it… Wink

Lou

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January 26, 2025 - 7:40 pm
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Thank you Louis

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January 26, 2025 - 7:59 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Don-

If it was the same gun shop there’s a good chance that is the original sling that came with the rifle.  For reference, this is a clip from the Model 70 ad run in the August 1956 issue of American Rifleman showing the style of carry strap that came on the African.

August-56-African-Ad-Clip-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

Hi RDB-

My “expertise” on Winchester slings is limited to what JWA has written about them…  Laugh  My understanding is that the three characteristics of slings sold by Winchester during the period pre-64 M70s were manufactured were that they have a single line embossed edge, distinctive two-rivet frogs, and two blued diamond staples in the leather keepers (exactly like your photo).  They offered both M1907 pattern (two-piece, two frog), and Whelen pattern slings, 1-inch and 1 1/4-inch width, and two different colors of leather, but always with those three characteristics and never marked with either a the maker’s name or “Winchester”…

Best,

Lou

  

Thanks Lou for confirming the correctness of the sling.  I think you may be right about it originally belonging to my rifle.  Amazing they were separated in the store and even more amazing that I married them back together again–completely by accident!   I’ve learned so much regarding pre-64 model 70’s in the past few weeks thanks to you and others on this forum.  But still not nearly enough to keep me out of trouble on my own!  Thanks so much for everyone’s patience and willingness to share their expertise on this subject.  Being able to tap this level of knowledge on this forum priceless.  Now I’m on the hunt for a nice vintage 1950’s (red, yellow, & white) full box of Winchester ammo to display with the rifle.

Thanks again,

Don

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January 26, 2025 - 8:05 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
For Dan-

This is a clip from the 1941 Winchester General catalog.

Slings-1941-General-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In general, rifle “slings” are adjustable for use as shooting aids, while “straps” are only adjustable for length, i.e. carrying a rifle on the shoulder.  Winchester offered both M1907 military type (2-piece) slings and “N.R.A. improved” Whelen type (1-piece) slings in the 1930s-40s.  The adjustable front part of the M1907 “sling” pictured above was intended to form a loop through which the shooter placed his/her arm and pulled it tight to steady the rifle while aiming.  That’s how the US military taught recruits to shoot in WWII… The Whelen type sling was adjustable but could only be used in “hasty sling” mode. 

Clip below is from the 1938 Jobber (J-A) catalog listing both types as well as the carry strap.

Slings-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

Interestingly, the sling pictured on the Super Grade in the 1937 Model 70 “green brochure” is the N.R.A. Improved (Whelen) sling, not the M1907 type.  

M70-Super-Grade-1937-Green-Brochure-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In the 1937-38 Catalogs the Super Grade is shown with the Whelen sling, while the Target rifles are shown with the M1907 style and the Albree Keeper that was supplied, along with the sling, on first year M70 Target rifles

M70-SG-and-Nat-Match-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

That’s about it… Wink

Lou

  

Again, awesome info and publications Lou.  I created a model 70 African folder on my computer and saving all of these in it.  Love learning about this stuff!

Don

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January 26, 2025 - 8:39 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
For Dan-

This is a clip from the 1941 Winchester General catalog.

Slings-1941-General-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In general, rifle “slings” are adjustable for use as shooting aids, while “straps” are only adjustable for length, i.e. carrying a rifle on the shoulder.  Winchester offered both M1907 military type (2-piece) slings and “N.R.A. improved” Whelen type (1-piece) slings in the 1930s-40s.  The adjustable front part of the M1907 “sling” pictured above was intended to form a loop through which the shooter placed his/her arm and pulled it tight to steady the rifle while aiming.  That’s how the US military taught recruits to shoot in WWII… The Whelen type sling was adjustable but could only be used in “hasty sling” mode. 

Clip below is from the 1938 Jobber (J-A) catalog listing both types as well as the carry strap.

Slings-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

Interestingly, the sling pictured on the Super Grade in the 1937 Model 70 “green brochure” is the N.R.A. Improved (Whelen) sling, not the M1907 type.  

M70-Super-Grade-1937-Green-Brochure-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In the 1937-38 Catalogs the Super Grade is shown with the Whelen sling, while the Target rifles are shown with the M1907 style and the Albree Keeper that was supplied, along with the sling, on first year M70 Target rifles

M70-SG-and-Nat-Match-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

That’s about it… Wink

Lou

  

deerhunter said

Louis Luttrell said

For Dan-

This is a clip from the 1941 Winchester General catalog.

Slings-1941-General-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In general, rifle “slings” are adjustable for use as shooting aids, while “straps” are only adjustable for length, i.e. carrying a rifle on the shoulder.  Winchester offered both M1907 military type (2-piece) slings and “N.R.A. improved” Whelen type (1-piece) slings in the 1930s-40s.  The adjustable front part of the M1907 “sling” pictured above was intended to form a loop through which the shooter placed his/her arm and pulled it tight to steady the rifle while aiming.  That’s how the US military taught recruits to shoot in WWII… The Whelen type sling was adjustable but could only be used in “hasty sling” mode. 

Clip below is from the 1938 Jobber (J-A) catalog listing both types as well as the carry strap.

Slings-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

Interestingly, the sling pictured on the Super Grade in the 1937 Model 70 “green brochure” is the N.R.A. Improved (Whelen) sling, not the M1907 type.  

M70-Super-Grade-1937-Green-Brochure-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

In the 1937-38 Catalogs the Super Grade is shown with the Whelen sling, while the Target rifles are shown with the M1907 style and the Albree Keeper that was supplied, along with the sling, on first year M70 Target rifles

M70-SG-and-Nat-Match-1938-J-A-Catalog-copy.jpgImage Enlarger

That’s about it… Wink

Lou

  

Again, awesome info and publications Lou.  I created a model 70 African folder on my computer and saving all of these in it.  Love learning about this stuff!

Don

  

interesting – then If I am seeing things correctly, much of what I see in use today are carrying straps instead of slings

Dan

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January 26, 2025 - 9:25 pm
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Dan-

Yes… You are correct. Laugh Most modern “slings” for hunting rifles are no more than “carry straps” (as Winchester would have called them back in the day).  Especially those that are not adjustable for length once on the gun.

If you are not familiar with that complicated contraption called the M1907 or “US Army” sling, this YouTube video does a decent job of explaining how to install and use it.  The video is a little long/boring and has too many cutaways to advertising, but it gives a pretty good idea.  

Any carry strap can be used as a “hasty sling” (as defined in the video) to aid shooting IF it’s the right length.  The Whelen (or N.R.A. Improved) sling Winchester sold in the 1930s and 40s can’t be used as a “loop sling” like the M1907, but it is readily adjustable for length and can easily be used in hasty sling mode once set to the correct length to fit the shooter.

Who knew??? Wink

Lou

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January 26, 2025 - 10:20 pm
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Bo Rich said
Interestingly that the Super Grade rifle was issued with the “target” style sling.  While the African was sold with a carrying strap.   You would think that there would be the same but they are not.  This example will be found in the Retail Price catalog Price catalog  Dec. 15, 1956.  With the African being the only Super Grade style Model 70 made after 1960 ( although I think they only made very few Super Grades other then the African after 1959).  It would seem that the carry strap was only used at this time.  On page nine of the 1963 Retail Price catalog there is a picture of a special order Model 70 with a carrying strap.   Also, I have a Model 725 Remington made in 1958.  I keep it around, because when most people see it they assume that it is a Model 70 Feather Weight.  Then they take a better look at it, and they can tell the difference.  My gun has the original carrying strap.  It is similar to the Winchester carrying strap, but you can see the difference to distinguish either one.  Now, Remington did issue a carrying strap for many years for the 700 BDL.  I bought a new 700 BDL 7 M/M REM Mag. in 1978 that had one in the box.  I no longer own that rifle, so I can not confirm if it is like the carrying strap on the 725.

  

Thanks Bo, I didn’t realize I had this info sitting under my nose.  I have copies of each the 1961 and 1963 Winchester catalogs.  Noticed the ventilated rubber butt-pads in the photos.  Wondering when Winchester transitioned from the solid red rubber butt-pads to the ventilated ones?

From the 1961 catalog:

P1090815.JPGImage EnlargerP1090818.JPGImage EnlargerP1090824.JPGImage Enlarger

 

 

 

From the 1963 catalog:

P1090820.JPGImage EnlargerP1090821.JPGImage EnlargerP1090822.JPGImage Enlarger

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January 26, 2025 - 11:29 pm
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Of little interest to most of us the tight sling shooting technique reportedly ceased to be taught soon after the adoption of the M16 rifle, apparently significant tension on the sling would change the POI. I suppose a floating handguard may help with that but I haven’t taken the opportunity to find out for myself. I wonder if a Model 70 would have the same issue. I suppose that would depend on the flexibility of the stock, the fit of the barrel to the channel and the stiffness of the barrel. I suppose this makes a good argument for practicing from the same positions you will use in the field.

 

Mike

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