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March 20, 2009
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Happy Thanksgiving guys,
When was the Lyman 21 receiver sight first introduced?
Thanks
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
November 1, 2013
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Though it was patented in ’95, the Lyman Centennial Handbook description is taken from the ’99 catalog–maybe because earlier catalogs weren’t available at the time it was being compiled. Have to examine catalogs between ’96 & ’99 to settle the date for sure–and they ain’t exactly easy to come by.
A more definite date is given for the #38 (the 21 with windage)–1910.
September 19, 2014
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Folks,
I suspect that Brad will be on here about this later, and have more definitive info. I can say, though, numbers of early flatside model 1895’s were factory equipped with the Lyman model 21 receiver sight in 1896 when most of the early flat sides first came to market. Being at least sometimes a practical person, that would tell me the receiver sight had been “out there” for a while for folks to know about it and have it fitted to the 1895 rifles in 1896. As result I would conclude they were generally introduced for use/purchase in the 1895 time frame. I suspect some on the forum here, may have a model 1894 from 1895 (or maybe even slightly earlier?) that was factory equipped with the model 21 receiver sight? Or someone with a similarly equipped 1886?
Tim
November 1, 2013
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tim tomlinson said
I can say, though, numbers of early flatside model 1895’s were factory equipped with the Lyman model 21 receiver sight in 1896 when most of the early flat sides first came to market…
Suggests coordination between the two companies, if Lyman already had the sight “ready to go” just as the rifles were coming off the production line.
December 30, 2011
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I believe the Lyman 21 was patented June 25, 1895 and the Lyman 38 on June 25, 1899. I have seen ads for the Lyman 21 as early as 1896, and I would imagine there would be earlier advertising.
March 20, 2009
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Thanks to all for the input. That helps a lot.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
November 1, 2013
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RickC(AG) said
Does anyone know when production ended on the 21?RickC
Still in the 1940 catalog, but suspect it did not survive WW II, when many pre-war products were discontinued.
clarence said
Still in the 1940 catalog, but suspect it did not survive WW II, when many pre-war products were discontinued.
Thanks Clarence. I’ve got one on a 1931 carbine marked DA on the back but it doesn’t say Lyman on the front & it’s not a buffalo Arms reproduction.
RickC
May 24, 2012
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RickC(AG) said
Does anyone know when production ended on the 21?RickC
Stroebel has the end date as 1943.
James
Brad Dunbar said
I believe the Lyman 21 was patented June 25, 1895 and the Lyman 38 on June 25, 1899. I have seen ads for the Lyman 21 as early as 1896, and I would imagine there would be earlier advertising.
Thanks Brad. Appreciate your reply & the info.
RickC
May 24, 2012
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You’re welcome, Rick. The patent date that Brad posted is what I have, too. According to this reference, the Lyman 21 “. . . was furnished in 1899 for the Winchester Models 1886, 1895; Marlin Models 1893, 1895 and Savage 303 . . . Lyman developed this sight specifically for the Winchester ’95 repeater.” So, Clarence’s comment about coordination between the two companies makes sense.
James
clarence said
Though it was patented in ’95, the Lyman Centennial Handbook description is taken from the ’99 catalog–maybe because earlier catalogs weren’t available at the time it was being compiled. Have to examine catalogs between ’96 & ’99 to settle the date for sure–and they ain’t exactly easy to come by.A more definite date is given for the #38 (the 21 with windage)–1910.
I have the 1896 catalog(Dec 1896) & no Lyman receiver sight in it. My 1899 catalog(Feb 1899) does have the Lyman receiver sight. So This narrows it down to 1897 or 1898 when first advertised in the Winchester catalogs.
RickC
September 22, 2011
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jwm94 said
You’re welcome, Rick. The patent date that Brad posted is what I have, too. According to this reference, the Lyman 21 “. . . was furnished in 1899 for the Winchester Models 1886, 1895; Marlin Models 1893, 1895 and Savage 303 . . . Lyman developed this sight specifically for the Winchester ’95 repeater.” So, Clarence’s comment about coordination between the two companies makes sense.
James
Is this reference correct? Unless it is post factory work, I have also seen the Lyman 21 (or 38) on the Winchester Model 1892 and 1894 rifles as well as the Winchester 1886 and 1895. Has anyone seen a Lyman 21 or 38 on a Winchester Model 71, 53, or 55 which is theoretically possible as the Climbing Lyman sight, according to Post #’s 8 & 10, above, suggest the Lyman 21 (Lyman 38?) were produced until WWII.
January 20, 2023
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Ian, anything is possible but the Lyman 56 micrometer receiver sight became available in 1933 and the competing Redfield 70 in 1935. Save only for the awkward Winchester 1895, either micrometer receiver sight was easily mounted on Winchester lever action rifles and both were superior to the Climbing Lymans. By the early Nineteen Thirties I don’t think many customers would have opted for a Lyman 21 or 38 for their Winchester Model 86, 92 or 94.
The Lyman 21/38 seems peculiarly suited to the Winchester 95 just because of the rifle’s architecture.
As an avid user of tang peep sights, I can readily see why a 1935 buyer might choose a Lyman or Marble’s tang or a Winchester 98A bolt peep, over a micrometer receiver sight for his Model 94 carbine. But why bugger up the left receiver wall for a complicated, delicate, less precise and — let’s say it – ugly contraption like the 21/38?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 23, 2007
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Ugly??? Come on, Bill! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The climbin’ Lyman is my favorite receiver sight on a vintage Winchester, whether it be an 1895, 1894, or 1886. It’s classy, accurate, more robust, and further away from my delicate eyeball. To each his own.
November 19, 2006
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I’ve got say I have a long history of being drawn to any rifle equipped with a Lyman No. 21 of No. 38 sight. The first one I ever had was a flatside Model 1895. Then 1886’s and 1894’s. Never a Model 1892 but not for lack of wanting. Others have included the Marlin 1895 and Savage 1899. Any rifle that has come along with this sight has received a serious look from me.
September 22, 2011
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Zebulon said
Ian, anything is possible but the Lyman 56 micrometer receiver sight became available in 1933 and the competing Redfield 70 in 1935. Save only for the awkward Winchester 1895, either micrometer receiver sight was easily mounted on Winchester lever action rifles and both were superior to the Climbing Lymans. By the early Nineteen Thirties I don’t think many customers would have opted for a Lyman 21 or 38 for their Winchester Model 86, 92 or 94.
The Lyman 21/38 seems peculiarly suited to the Winchester 95 just because of the rifle’s architecture.
As an avid user of tang peep sights, I can readily see why a 1935 buyer might choose a Lyman or Marble’s tang or a Winchester 98A bolt peep, over a micrometer receiver sight for his Model 94 carbine. But why bugger up the left receiver wall for a complicated, delicate, less precise and — let’s say it – ugly contraption like the 21/38?
I am not a fan of receiver sights, as I prefer the symmetry that a tang sight provides. The lone exception to this is the Lyman 21/38 receiver sights.
Bill, for a receiver sight, the Lyman 21/38 is almost cute and cuddly.
November 19, 2006
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mrcvs said
Zebulon said
Ian, anything is possible but the Lyman 56 micrometer receiver sight became available in 1933 and the competing Redfield 70 in 1935. Save only for the awkward Winchester 1895, either micrometer receiver sight was easily mounted on Winchester lever action rifles and both were superior to the Climbing Lymans. By the early Nineteen Thirties I don’t think many customers would have opted for a Lyman 21 or 38 for their Winchester Model 86, 92 or 94.
The Lyman 21/38 seems peculiarly suited to the Winchester 95 just because of the rifle’s architecture.
As an avid user of tang peep sights, I can readily see why a 1935 buyer might choose a Lyman or Marble’s tang or a Winchester 98A bolt peep, over a micrometer receiver sight for his Model 94 carbine. But why bugger up the left receiver wall for a complicated, delicate, less precise and — let’s say it – ugly contraption like the 21/38?
I am not a fan of receiver sights, as I prefer the symmetry that a tang sight provides. The lone exception to this is the Lyman 21/38 receiver sights.
Bill, for a receiver sight, the Lyman 21/38 is almost cute and cuddly.
The Lyman 21/38 fits much flatter to the receiver than other receiver sights. Many receiver sights are like a bulge on the side of the receiver. Sort of like a burl on the side of tree.
