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Lyman #2 (?) help
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Anchorage, Alaska
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August 16, 2022 - 8:32 pm
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Hey all, I have what I believe is a Lyman #2 tang sight on an 1894 and am getting it squared away on this rifle. First off, can you all confirm that it is in fact a #2, and second, I need help with ideas on how to get the knurled barrel to turn. It doesn’t seem to want to budge and I sure don’t want to force it. Is it safe to use WD40 or something similar to see if it will penetrate?

 

Markings include the patent date just under the knurled barrel Pat Jan 29.79- May 6.84, and it has a D under the base which I believe was for an 1892? DA being for an 1894?

 

Thanks for the help all

28B13CB3-9A72-476E-A2E1-0ED7D5A6216C.jpegImage Enlarger48B7B54C-F845-4D5E-A25C-E8DF4DBD12B6.jpegImage EnlargerE3B94348-C21A-4423-8937-0DC8E07A1084.jpegImage Enlarger

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August 16, 2022 - 9:48 pm
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Matt-Take it off the gun and use PB Blaster or wd-40 etc–It should loosen..Bill

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August 16, 2022 - 11:12 pm
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Matt Herman said
Hey all, I have what I believe is a Lyman #2 tang sight on an 1894 and am getting it squared away on this rifle.

  

No, a No. 1; the No. 2 had a large eye-cup or disk.  Appears to be in excellent cond., but turned down tight to lowest position.  The fold-down aperture is the part that usually sticks.  Why don’t you just take it off & submerge it in a small container of carb cleaner?

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August 16, 2022 - 11:37 pm
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Thanks Clarence, would it be a number 1, second variation then? I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t notice the flip down aperture, and I’m still learning a lot. Also would help if I put on my reading glasses.

 

Taking it off now to start soaking : )

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August 17, 2022 - 12:50 am
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Matt Herman said
 I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t notice the flip down aperture, and I’m still learning a lot.

  

Early Lyman catalog illustrations always show this in the “down” position, because Wm. Lyman strongly promoted use of the larger aperture for hunting.  Before the #2 came along (1898-9), there was no “No. 1”–it was called the Lyman Combination Sight, because (according to Lyman’s patent description) the turn-down ap. was intended to be used for target shooting, the larger ap. for hunting, therefore making it a Combination sight.  Few customers, evidently, paid any attention to these instructions & left the turn-down in the “up” position, which after 100 yrs of neglect, is frequently stuck. 

For decades I’ve been hoping a Lyman box without the “No. 1” marking would show up on ebay; I’d be satisfied with the box alone, without the sight itself.  Boxes marked “No. 1 Combination” show up from time to time, but these were obviously made after the #2 had gone into production.

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August 17, 2022 - 2:13 am
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Clarence, are you telling us that the round eyelet acting as a pivot is another aperture for this sight? 

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August 17, 2022 - 3:49 am
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oldcrankyyankee said
Clarence, are you telling us that the round eyelet acting as a pivot is another aperture for this sight? 

  

Exactly, two sizes.

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August 17, 2022 - 9:36 am
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clarence said

oldcrankyyankee said

Clarence, are you telling us that the round eyelet acting as a pivot is another aperture for this sight? 

  

Exactly, two sizes.

  

Can you tell me how to swap them over? rather have some guidance so I dont ruin mine  

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August 17, 2022 - 1:04 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said  Can you tell me how to swap them over? rather have some guidance so I dont ruin mine 

Like I said, it may be stuck tight against the larger ap by old dried oil or corrosion, so using a punch slightly smaller than the large ap, force it backwards, i.e., towards the muzzle.  Wouldn’t hurt to soak it in carb cleaner first, but it may come free by pushing alone.

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August 17, 2022 - 4:19 pm
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Well I soaked this sight all night in WD40 and the knurled barrel of the body still wont budge. I do have some brake cleaner here (no carb cleaner) but I hesitate to soak in that, scared of ruining the finish on the sight. I don;t think I want to grab hold of it with a pair of pliers. Even carefully, but I’m not certain how best to proceed

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August 17, 2022 - 4:21 pm
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On a side note, the entire sight itself looks like it benefitted from the soaking and looks incredible in my opinion

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August 17, 2022 - 5:01 pm
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I would continue soaking it and trying to break it free.  If you wrap a rag around the barrel you can carefully grab it with some smooth jawed pliers.  Don’t force it just try to rock it back and forth a little.  With the rag still wrapped around it you can take a small brass hammer and tap it a few times.  Eventually it will break free.  Just be patient and don’t force the issue.

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August 17, 2022 - 6:40 pm
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Chuck said
 If you wrap a rag around the barrel you can carefully grab it with some smooth jawed pliers.

  

Use a strip of leather & you won’t need the smooth jawed pliers–I’ve done it many times.  Smooth jawed pliers generally have parallel jaws, which don’t grip as well as the curved jaws of regular pliers.  WD 40 is not the best solvent, if dried oil is why it’s sticking.  Better than carb cleaner for dissolving any kind of petroleum product is lacquer thinner, which won’t harm a blued finish.

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August 17, 2022 - 7:04 pm
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clarence said

Chuck said

 If you wrap a rag around the barrel you can carefully grab it with some smooth jawed pliers.

  

Use a strip of leather & you won’t need the smooth jawed pliers–I’ve done it many times.  Smooth jawed pliers generally have parallel jaws, which don’t grip as well as the curved jaws of regular pliers.  WD 40 is not the best solvent, if dried oil is why it’s sticking.  Better than carb cleaner for dissolving any kind of petroleum product is lacquer thinner, which won’t harm a blued finish.

  

I have some paint thinner and also VM&P Naptha here, no lacquer thinner. Ok to use either of those? Pretty paranoid about harming the finish so if I need to run grab lacquer thinner I will

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August 17, 2022 - 7:20 pm
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Matt Herman said

I have some paint thinner and also VM&P Naptha here, no lacquer thinner. Ok to use either of those? Pretty paranoid about harming the finish so if I need to run grab lacquer thinner I will 

Sure, I’ve never heard of a petroleum-based solvent that would harm the blue, but LT will even soften dried epoxy.  By the way, rotate the barrel clockwise to raise the stem. 

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August 17, 2022 - 10:32 pm
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Success!!

Thanks for the help gentlemen, both in helping identify exactly which model sight this is and getting it free to function as it should! 

I did end up soaking it for a few hours in Nahptha and then used a pair of pliers, which required very little force by that point to free the barrel. Also used a set of fine picks to clean out some gunk at the base of the stem as well as around the inside of the aperture. 

I know that we know the patent date as it is stamped on the sight, but is there a particular date range in which they were made? And at what point did the next variation come along?

Thanks again, Matt5AB35309-1CDE-43E2-904A-46404825EE82.jpegImage Enlarger52B85279-9956-4AAF-B594-3C1C36A5489E.jpegImage Enlarger

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August 17, 2022 - 11:42 pm
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Matt Herman said
 

I know that we know the patent date as it is stamped on the sight, but is there a particular date range in which they were made? And at what point did the next variation come along?
 

  

Persistence rewarded!  (I was next going to recommend application of a Stilson.)

At some point late in production, precise date unknown to me, the Lyman name-marking was moved to the top of the base in large letters, but no other changes were made in the #1 & #2.  In 1905, two new models were introduced, 1A & 2A, which differed from the originals in being fitted with a locking lever in place of the spring-bolt–a blatant sales-gimmick if ever there was one, which did nothing to improve the sight.

I don’t know when they went out of production, but all models are still listed in the 1959 Shooter’s Bible, the first one I ever bought.  Probably wasn’t much longer after that they started becoming “collector’s items.”

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August 18, 2022 - 12:45 am
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Thanks so much Clarence, great info and exactly what I was after. It seems to me then that this particular sight is older than the actual rifle it sits on, a model 1894 from 1909. I still marvel over the fact that I hold something this old in my hands, that is still functional, looks fantastic, and that I plan to put to use as intended! Just can’t get enough 

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August 18, 2022 - 10:04 pm
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I guess I have one last question in regards to this sight…When I raise the sight it doesn’t quite go to vertical. Is there a way to safely adjust this? Thanks 

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August 18, 2022 - 11:16 pm
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Matt Herman said
I guess I have one last question in regards to this sight…When I raise the sight it doesn’t quite go to vertical. Is there a way to safely adjust this? Thanks 

  

Yes–run a dowel rod, Phillips screwdriver, etc., through the eye of the spring-bolt & turn it to the vertical position.  Not my invention, this method described in the catalog.

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