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Lets talk scopes
February 5, 2018
5:44 pm
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etrex
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I have an 1892 in 25-20 that is tapped for scope mounts on the barrel, each mount area has 2 holes spaced 7/8" apart and the center to center on the 2 mounts locations is about 6 7/8" apart [one just behind the factory sight and one in front]..I am toying with the idea of  picking up a vintage scope and mounts to fit it with. The gun is a 1913 d.o.m. but the mounts were probably added much later..My question is..Does anyone have an idea of what scopes would typically have been used on a barrel mount like this? They obviously had to have a long eye relief to mount in front of the ejection port.The gun is in nice shape with a round barrel and  I got it at a shooter price..It will never be original again so why not add the scope and make a novel shooter out of it?  I have seen several of the old long straight tube vintage scopes on ebay but none have mentioned the eye releif, so dont know what would work, or be appropriate on it. any thoughts on what would work or be somewhat historically accurate as to the scope and mounts would be appropriate..Thanks  Brian

February 5, 2018
9:06 pm
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etrex said My question is..Does anyone have an idea of what scopes would typically have been used on a barrel mount like this? They obviously had to have a long eye relief to mount in front of the ejection port. 

Even if there was a scope available at the time having that much eye-relief, looking through it would be like looking through a key-hole; but there wasn't.  For top ejectors, Winchester made a pair of offset mounts that positioned the scope on the left side of the receiver; awkward but usable. The dovetails on these mounts fit the regular Winchester scope blocks.  Must have made a good many of them, as I've seen quite a few listed on Ebay.

7/8" is the screw spacing of Winchester's rear block, but the usual front block was about 1/8th less, so the installer used 2 rear blocks...which works just as well, but indicates the installation wasn't a factory job.

February 6, 2018
2:03 am
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etrex
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I thought I had seen pictures of scopes mounted on the barrel up forward, if no scopes were produced with that longer eye relief it makes you wonder what kind of a set up they had on this rifle?

February 6, 2018
2:34 am
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etrex said
I thought I had seen pictures of scopes mounted on the barrel up forward, if no scopes were produced with that longer eye relief it makes you wonder what kind of a set up they had on this rifle?  

Jeez, didn't I just tell you?

February 6, 2018
5:30 am
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etrex
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Clarence..Actually no, I dont think you did..since this was not tapped for the receiver scope mount to the side...

February 7, 2018
1:28 pm
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Nothing is attached to the rcvr. Scope blocks are screwed to the barrel, but the mounts themselves are OFFSET to the left by means of short, right-angle, extensions.  Position of scope tube can be brought as far back as desired. 

February 8, 2018
2:34 pm
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etrex
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Clarence, Thanks for clearing this up for me, The offset scope mounting seems too awkward, for me so I think I will leave it as is..

February 8, 2018
4:34 pm
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etrex said
I have an 1892 in 25-20 that is tapped for scope mounts on the barrel, each mount area has 2 holes spaced 7/8" apart and the center to center on the 2 mounts locations is about 6 7/8" apart [one just behind the factory sight and one in front]..I am toying with the idea of  picking up a vintage scope and mounts to fit it with. The gun is a 1913 d.o.m. but the mounts were probably added much later..My question is..Does anyone have an idea of what scopes would typically have been used on a barrel mount like this? They obviously had to have a long eye relief to mount in front of the ejection port.The gun is in nice shape with a round barrel and  I got it at a shooter price..It will never be original again so why not add the scope and make a novel shooter out of it?  I have seen several of the old long straight tube vintage scopes on ebay but none have mentioned the eye releif, so dont know what would work, or be appropriate on it. any thoughts on what would work or be somewhat historically accurate as to the scope and mounts would be appropriate..Thanks  Brian  

Hello Etrex,

I have two Model 1892 rifles with factory drilled and tapped blocks and one has an old Lyman scope on it.  I think!  I will have to take a closer look at it later today.  If you will send me photos of the rifle to me at 2bitrifles@gmail.com I will be happy to take a look at it for you and comment as applicable.  I can also add the rifle into my survey.  https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-model-1892-all-rifle-survey/

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

February 9, 2018
4:22 pm
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etrex
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Michael,  I would love to have you take a look, I will whip up some photo's and send then on...I sent you the survey info previously[ ser #725324] but will include photos of pertinent markings in case you want them for your files...Brian

February 9, 2018
10:27 pm
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Brian,

Here are photos of my two "scope blocked" Model 92's.  The early one is SN 928861 is a round barreled sporting rifle in 25-20 WCF caliber.  The rear sight dovetail is empty and shows no sign (no elevator wear) of ever having a sight in it.  The barrel proof stamp was purposefully move to be in front of the rear mounting block.  It is clear that the blocks and the mounting screws are placed different on the two blocks.  The rifle also has double set triggers and appears that the owner was intent on maximizing the accuracy of the gun.  It is the only round barrel Model 92 sporting rifle I own.   I bought it specifically for the factory scope mount and set trigger combination.

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The second rifle is SN 995174, an octagon barrel, takedown frame sporting rifle chambered in 32 WCF, and fitted with a Winchester A-5 scope.  You can see that the barrel proof stamp has been rotated to the left flat of the barrel just following the caliber stamp.  The receiver exhibits the typical flaking bluing of many late 1892 rifles.  But beyond that it is in pretty nice condition.  I hope this helps.

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

February 10, 2018
12:56 am
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etrex
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Very nice guns..especially the oct. barrelled with scope..from your overhead pics it appears that the scope is in line, directly over the bore and receiver, Is this the case? or is there a very small offset to it? and if it is directly over the bore and receiver is there no issues with ejection of the spent cases?  This is really help full and is getting me on track....I emailed photos to you earlier so you can see the set up on my gun..You may have spurred me on to hit Ebay and start looking for scope and mounts!..Thanks Michael..

February 10, 2018
3:09 am
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etrex said
Very nice guns..especially the oct. barrelled with scope..from your overhead pics it appears that the scope is in line, directly over the bore and receiver, Is this the case? or is there a very small offset to it? and if it is directly over the bore and receiver is there no issues with ejection of the spent cases?

No offset for this installation--the idea is that you shove the scope forward after firing, eject, than draw it back to shooting position.  (Or if you don't object to hearing the case slam into the scope, suppose you could do it that way; though it might fail to eject completely.)  Same thing was sometimes done on early bolt actions if the bolt handle struck the eyepiece when raised. 

No offense, but if I HAD to mount a scope on a lever-action, I'd get a Marlin.  That's what makes both of these '92s exceedingly rare.

February 11, 2018
1:14 pm
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That's what makes both of these '92s exceedingly rare.

Yes Clarence.  You don't just bump into a factory scoped 1892 at every little gun show, shop, or auction.   The RB rifle looks to have been hardly used and I am certain that the original owner was definitely trying to maximize accuracy either via the peep or with a scope on it.  The barrel is pristine where the rear sight was located.  I may look for a dovetail filler to put on it.

Micahel

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

March 2, 2018
11:23 pm
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This is how a Malcom scope can be attached to a 1873.Winchester-1873-L.JPGImage Enlarger

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March 4, 2018
6:28 pm
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An 1894 .25-35 of mine has the scope--not off-set.  Sometimes instead of pushing the scope forward, I just tip the rifle to the right and eject.  This way, no cases fall back into the receiver.

Have a .30-30 with the off-set mounted scope.  But have yet to play with that one.  (Must develop a good load for that one.  Then--Whoopee!)

March 5, 2018
12:39 am
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FromTheWoods said
An 1894 .25-35 of mine has the scope--not off-set.  Sometimes instead of pushing the scope forward, I just tip the rifle to the right and eject.  This way, no cases fall back into the receiver.

Have a .30-30 with the off-set mounted scope. 

What makes of scopes are on those two?

March 6, 2018
6:39 pm
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Both:  Winchester A5.

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