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Can anyone advise if there’s a way to distinguish an original Winchester flat top rear sight. I see several flat tops on guns or on eBay that appear to be filed down, some with serrations on the side, some without, some filed with a forward angle, some with the aperture insert & set screw & some without, and my 1905 catalog shows the edges have a tip upward like the photo below. It’s hard to tell sometimes which ones are original, especially if a little cold blue was applied to mask the filing.
Rick C
Can’t answer your question, but catalog illustrations don’t always match exactly the “real thing.” On top of that, minor production variations often creep into products manufactured over a long period, because changes are made to the tooling & jigs, somebody thinks of a “better way” to handle a procedure, etc.
If the cut is crude, if the screw-locked insert or screw is trimmed it’s not original. Also the blue on the flat top has to be original to the sight. Shape and size may vary. T/R
Thanks for replying. I have seen several that the screw-locked insert or screw is trimmed and listed as original flat top. I had a few 33 model 86’s with original flat top sights but I have nothing to compare right now and thought maybe there was something more definitive to identify an original. We’re flat tops furnished with serrations on the side also? These are the majority that appear to be trimmed or filed down.
Rick C
RickC said Did originals actually come with serrations because these are the majority that appear to be filed down.
Originals of which sight? Before WWI, catalog drawings show serrations on the buckhorns, but not later catalogs. I’m a little skeptical that “so many” would take the trouble to do this mod.
clarence said
RickC said Did originals actually come with serrations because these are the majority that appear to be filed down.
Originals of which sight? Before WWI, catalog drawings show serrations on the buckhorns, but not later catalogs. I’m a little skeptical that “so many” would take the trouble to do this mod.
Talking about the flat top rear sights that I see with serrations. I don’t recall any of the original flat tops that I had were with serrations. These flat tops with serrations always seem to be filed down semi buckhorn sights. Easy fix to make a flat top back in the day I guess!
Rick C
Rick,
There were at least several different variations of the Winchester Flat-top sporting rear sights manufactured over time, and the early variations did indeed have serrated sides (for easier grasping when moving the elevator piece). Like Clarence, I am not of the belief that people took the time to “file down” an original full buckhorn sporting sight… way too much effort with no gain in the function of the sight.
The attached pictures are the original platinum lined Flat-top sight on my 50 Express high-wall (s/n 12302).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Rick,There were at least several different variations of the Winchester Flat-top sporting rear sights manufactured over time, and the early variations did indeed have serrated sides (for easier grasping when moving the elevator piece). Like Clarence, I am not of the belief that people took the time to “file down” an original full buckhorn sporting sight… way too much effort.
The attached pictures are the original platinum lined Flat-top sight on my 50 Express high-wall (s/n 12302).
Bert
Great examples and photos Bert. Thanks for advising flat tops also had serrations. It looks just like the one in the 1905 catalog.
Rick C
I have seen enough primitive file jobs on flat top sights to believe they were modified when tang sights were added. Instead of removing the rear sight when installing a tang sight the owner took a file to the top. If it’s crude it’s not original. The pictures Bert posted show a nice clean original sight, that’s not what I’m talking about. T/R
TR said
I have seen enough primitive file jobs on flat top sights to believe they were modified when tang sights were added. Instead of removing the rear sight when installing a tang sight the owner took a file to the top. If it’s crude it’s not original. The pictures Bert posted show a nice clean original sight, that’s not what I’m talking about. T/R
Yes I agree Thomas about being modified for a tang sight added. The crude ones are evident but some are done nicely with a little cold blue added to mask the altered sight.
Rick C
I have seen enough primitive file jobs on flat top sights to believe they were modified when tang sights were added. Instead of removing the rear sight when installing a tang sight the owner took a file to the top. If it’s crude it’s not original. TR said
Plausible, esp if found on gun having tang sight. Or maybe some previous owner had the brains to recognize what a bad idea all buckhorns are; every gun writer denounced them, but dopes don’t read.
Bert H. said
Rick,There were at least several different variations of the Winchester Flat-top sporting rear sights manufactured over time, and the early variations did indeed have serrated sides (for easier grasping when moving the elevator piece). Like Clarence, I am not of the belief that people took the time to “file down” an original full buckhorn sporting sight… way too much effort with no gain in the function of the sight.
The attached pictures are the original platinum lined Flat-top sight on my 50 Express high-wall (s/n 12302).
Bert
I was inquiring about the entry in the letter below but then found this previous thread. Thanks Bert! Now to find one.
Rick C
Here is an early sporting rear sight with flat top installed on 1873 rifle SN 15259. Received in the warehouse April 19, 1876 but not shipped until December 1, 1878. Winchester catalogs starting in 1875 show the sporting rear sight. These sporting rear sights could be ordered with cloverleaf, buckhorn or any desired shape according to the catalog. The sights on this rifle are not listed in the letter.
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
In Jim Gordon’s book he shows this sight on a couple first models in the 10,000 serial number range. Unfortunately he does not show the side where a line could be.
Bill Hockett said
Here is an early sporting rear sight with flat top installed on 1873 rifle SN 15259. Received in the warehouse April 19, 1876 but not shipped until December 1, 1878. Winchester catalogs starting in 1879 show the sporting rear sight. These sporting rear sights could be ordered with cloverleaf, buckhorn or any desired shape according to the catalog. The sights on this rifle are not listed in the letter.
I like this sight and what I see of the gun. The flat machined on the top of the barrel for the elevator is a sure sign. I would consider this to be correct.
Thanks for posting the pictures Bill. T/R
clarence said
RickC said Did originals actually come with serrations because these are the majority that appear to be filed down.
Originals of which sight? Before WWI, catalog drawings show serrations on the buckhorns, but not later catalogs. I’m a little skeptical that “so many” would take the trouble to do this mod.
Rick C
TR said
Bill Hockett said
Here is an early sporting rear sight with flat top installed on 1873 rifle SN 15259. Received in the warehouse April 19, 1876 but not shipped until December 1, 1878. Winchester catalogs starting in 1879 show the sporting rear sight. These sporting rear sights could be ordered with cloverleaf, buckhorn or any desired shape according to the catalog. The sights on this rifle are not listed in the letter.
I like this sight and what I see of the gun. The flat machined on the top of the barrel for the elevator is a sure sign. I would consider this to be correct.
Thanks for posting the pictures Bill. T/R
I agree, a nice 1st model from the pictures.
Tom, did Winchester actually machine a flat on the top of the barrel for the elevator? I have not heard of this before.
Chris
A man can never have too many WINCHESTERS...
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