Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Identification function - Peep, 1894 from 1952
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
May 13, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
May 17, 2018 - 6:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

think this is likely original, did a little poking around and saw something like this was it appears a small upgrade to the standard sight.  couple questions if anyone would be so kind

1.  What is this site and how does it get adjusted?  There is a scale that starts at 0 and it adjusts vertically from there, but there are no other numbers, so it is zero to what, and what is the gradation so I can set range correctly.

2.  I monkeyed with the mechanism and looked at some youtube videos.  In the videos it looked like there is a pin/spring with a pin end that is held by poking through the left side of the receiver, and that has to be taken out to pull the bolt out to get better access to the internals, and to line up a rod to clean the barrel from the breech.  I don’t see that pin, and if it was there I think it would be underneath the peep site base where it connects to the side of the receiver.  Do I have to pull the peep site to get to that pin, or is there another way?

 

https://s19.postimg.cc/twjlm788f/1894-peep1.jpgImage Enlarger

https://s19.postimg.cc/77uemmykf/1894-peep2.jpgImage Enlarger

upon closer inspection, I believe it says Redfield, but there is no indication as to the scale, guess I can google it.

Avatar
New Mexico
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1167
Member Since:
December 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
May 17, 2018 - 9:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I don’t recognize that sight at all so I poked around some of my gun sight publications ie., Pirkle, Madis and Stroebel, and could not find this sight. Quite frankly, it looks rather primitive to have been something made and installed by Winchester and all the major sight manufacturers provided chronometer-like adjustment knobs and scales for setting windage and elevation.

The pin you are looking for is # 20 in this drawing. You access it with the lever closed and remove the plug screw then punch the pin out.

Winchester_94_AE_schematic.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
May 13, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
May 18, 2018 - 1:31 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

thanks for the diagram.  I think the sight is this model, maybe a variant of the 102.  This pic I found shows the basic info on how to install and set/use.

s-l1000.jpgImage Enlarger

upon closer inspection, it appears, I do not have the peep for this peep sight.  The little piece that screws in where you would look through.  I don’t quite get how you can see anything through the tiny little hole, but all the other ones seem to have that piece, might turn up but probably not.

Avatar
Winchester, VA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 972
Member Since:
November 5, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
May 18, 2018 - 11:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hi film495-

That is a Redfield 102 (no suffix) sight.  According to Strobel it was made for the ’92 and ’94 etc. from sometime in the mid-late 1920s until 1952.  For example, I’ve got a Redfield 102-W (fits the M54 and M70 receivers) NIB whose box is marked Winchester Model 54 only (meaning it predates the 1937 introduction of the M70).

All in all the Redfield 102 was a lower cost “peep sight” option, as it lacks the micrometer adjustments of the high-end Lyman 48 (even 57) series or the Redfield 100, 90 and 70 series sights.  Elevation is adjusted by loosening the locking screw on the elevator staff and manually moving the sight up or down, and windage is adjusted by loosening the right or left had screw on the cross bar and tightening the opposing screw.  In short, it’s a sturdy hunting sight that is not meant to be adjusted in the field or at the range.

Apertures (the screw-in sighting disc) are readily available in eBay in various overall and aperture (central opening) diameters.  Many hunters would go for a smaller overall diameter and wider aperture that would provide a “ghost ring” sort of aiming for quick field shooting at moving game.  It actually works quite well…  For the real “ghost ring” effect some folks would omit the screw-in aperture disc entirely.

As far as I know (from contemporary parts catalogs), the inexpensive Redfield 102 (as well as the micrometer adjustable series 100 and 90 sights) was cataloged as an extra ($4.50) special order sight option at least in the late 1930s. This does say anything one way or another about whether the sight on your rifle was/was not factory installed, only that it was around at the time.

Best, Lou 

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
May 13, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
May 20, 2018 - 8:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

thanks for the info.  from the info I’ve seen this 1894 was manufactured in 52 – my  best guess is the sight came with it, the rear sight area on the barrel appears to be blanked, so that is my guess anyway.  I think if I was going to be doing some type of range competition, the more tunable sights would be better.  For this, I don’t really have any plans for it – it was a family item, so – my take would be I’ll just get it set for what might be a standard shot at average distance and lock it in place and probably never change it.  in the field/woods, for hunting – it’s not like anyone would have time to stop and adjust a sight if there is a good shot opportunity.  would probably just estimate rise/drop and/or wind adjustment.

for a standard 150 or 170 grain round, from say Winchester.  What distance would you suggest I try to Zero the sight for, for the best general accuracy?

I may not bother getting an aperture, I’m an OK shot off hand, and just with the ring with the sight adjusted – I’d bet I could hit a tennis ball pretty consistently at 50 yards, the sight does just intuitively center in the ring. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
May 13, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
June 27, 2018 - 11:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I finally got to shoot this rile with the Redfield sight.  I did get an aperture, one that was for basic hunting if I recall correctly, it is pretty large, almost as large as without any aperture, but it is a little smaller.  At an indoor range, I was consistently low about 6″ at only 50 feet.  I thought it might shoot high, since I set it to what I thought would be 50 yards.  Does anyone know what the ruler markings on the up/down distance adjustment represent?  Is that for distance yards to adjust for drop etc. or does each ruler like marking indicate a vertical adjustment at a defined distance?  Just not sure how to actually adjust the sight or what the scale is representative of.

One other question about the rifle.  It seemed to work really well – 1952 Winchester 1894 in 30-30 // when closing the action at the very last bit where it locks, it seems a little tight where I’m not sure if I’m forcing it.  It doesn’t do this if I just cycle it unloaded to work that action.  It does do the same thing with snap caps, but actually seemed to do it less once the snap caps were put through a few times.  Is that what the action should feel like?  I just don’t want to hurt it if that isn’t normal.  This was my first time firing a lever gun.

Overall I’d say I’m not used to the rifle at all.  The LOP might be a little short, and I never shot through a peep sight before.  Overall, for shooting a rifle that I stripped and cleaned myself, first time, and put back together, first time, and having never shot the rifle before – seemed to go really well just for a few things I find myself still unsure about.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 564
Member Since:
September 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
June 28, 2018 - 2:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Let me take a shot at answering some of your questions, if you will pardon my pun.  First, I do not know that the scales on the Redfield and similar sights have any prescribed values (where scopes with their fixed lengths, etc, can say each click is 1/4 minute) because of the varying distances between the sight and the front sight.  I only use my hash marks as a means of recording where I have it zero’ed for a given distance.  Shooting silhouette shoots, I write down on a 3 by 5 card the hash marks for 100, 200 and 300 yards for each rifle.  The hash marks allow you to repeat the distance settings (in concert with recording the dial hash marks on the top of the elevation turret for finer detail).  You will have to just adjust at the range you wish to fire most often (say 100 yards).  

Next, as to the effort to close the action on ammunition.  I assume you are using factory ammunition.  IF so, then having a slight effort required to close the lever at the last means you have tight headspace.  That is a good thing.  If you are using your or someone else’s reloads, then it may be the ammo or it may be the rifle.  If you have to really grip it quite hard to close the lever, then I would find the reason before potentially bending the lever.  It is a matter of degree of effort required to close the bolt that last little bit on the ammunition.  I suspect from your comment about the snap caps initially requiring some effort that what you have is a tight headspace, and likely not an issue unless, again, you really have to use a very strong grip to close the lever.

Tim

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: Ben, Kendall M, Blue Ridge Parson, Paul K, Wyatt
Guest(s) 128
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6281
TXGunNut: 4969
Chuck: 4571
1873man: 4282
steve004: 4160
Big Larry: 2324
twobit: 2291
TR: 1710
mrcvs: 1706
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12649
Posts: 109988

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1745
Members: 8791
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation