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Early Lyman sight?
September 2, 2020
2:10 pm
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Kingston, WA
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clarence said

Do you think I doubt that's what's recorded on the ledger?  But what bearing does the ledger entry have on whether or not it's actually an S? Even if the ledger entry specified "S," it wouldn't prove that's what's on the gun.  Few SSs were chambered for cartridges long enough to interfere with the staff placement on standard #1s, which was the only justification for a special base.  There's only one way to find out how, or if, the sight is marked, & it's not complicated.  

So, you ignore the fact that not all "S" coded sights are hinged in the middle of the base, and you also ignore the fact that the sight on the rifle is period correct to the rifle, and you ignore the fact that the rifle letters with a Lyman tang sight... and yet, you still feel the need to argue the fact that it might not be original to the rifle and take it apart for the sake of what ???

A little bit of history behind this rifle.  I bought it 20-years ago from a 91-year old gentleman living in Wisconsin.  He (and his son) stated that he bought the rifle 65-years prior from a Mom & Pop Hardware store in South Dakota.  At the time he purchased it, the owner of the store mentioned that he had taken it in on trade from the original buyer almost 20-years prior to that.  The old gentleman I bought it stated that he paid $9 for it, and was the rifle's 3rd owner.  In all the years he owned it, he never shot it because he could not find ammo for it, and that was his one regret when he sold it to me.  When I informed him that Winchester only made (120) rifles in the 40-90 Ballard cartridge, and that it was never a "high" demand cartridge, he commented "no wonder I could never find ammo for it".  One of the things that attracted me to the rifle was the condition of the bore... it is almost like new!  I have not shot it (yet), and am hesitant to do so even though I now have two full 10-round boxes of original WRACo ammo for it.  If I ever do shoot it, it will be with special cases loaded with IMR 4198.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
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September 2, 2020
3:08 pm
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I'm not ignoring anything!  What makes an "S" coded sight if it's NOT the special base?  Are you saying you've seen an "S" coded sight that did NOT have the special base?

I said that few cartridges were long enough to justify the special base, but the .40-90 is one of them, which makes it all the more strange that this sight has the standard base.

September 2, 2020
4:15 pm
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Kingston, WA
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clarence said
I'm not ignoring anything!  What makes an "S" coded sight if it's NOT the special base?  Are you saying you've seen an "S" coded sight that did NOT have the special base?

I said that few cartridges were long enough to justify the special base, but the .40-90 is one of them, which makes it all the more strange that this sight has the standard base.  

Clarence,

Did you bother yourself to read the reply where I posted pictures showing the Lyman "S" coded sights I own ?

In answer to your question, it is NOT the "special base" that makes it an "S" coded sight!! 

For what it is worth, the 40-90 Ballard cartridge is only 2-15/16"... a fair amount shorter than the 40-90 Sharps Straight 3-1/4". 

The sight base location for the "N" coded sights is because of the bolt throw distance on the Model 1886 (not the cartridge length).  For the Model 1885, the cartridge length was not a concern in regards to the placement of the tang sight staff.  If the cartridge case length really was a concern, all of the Mid-Range and Long-Range graduated peep sights made for the Model 1885 would have been made with a different sight base.

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September 2, 2020
4:49 pm
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Bert H. said

Clarence,

Did you bother yourself to read the reply where I posted pictures showing the Lyman "S" coded sights I own ?

I did NOT see those photos, but they answer the question I asked.  But still don't understand why Lyman was making S sights with TWO different bases, or how, if a customer had a preference for one or the other, he could specify which one to buy.

September 2, 2020
6:13 pm
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Bert H. said
The "1879" is just a patent date. I positively know the finer knurling pattern was still in use for at least a few years after the Model 1885 was introduced.  The bottom rifle in my signature picture is serial number 7397, received in the warehouse on January 20, 1887, and it letters with as "Lyman F & R".

Bert

Lyman-No.-1-1.jpegImage EnlargerLyman-No.-1-early.jpegImage Enlarger  

I have a Colt large frame that letters with this Lyman sight.  It shipped in 1890.  It has the finer knurling.

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