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Beach folding globe combination
September 11, 2019
5:42 pm
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Can someone advise if the Beach front sight, folds up from the muzzle end or the receiver end? It appears to me this one in the pics below which folds up from the receiver end is backwards when compared to the illustration pic (1898 catalog).
It’s on a 1886.

AG

6F2B3A77-5186-4D2B-B893-4EA5AC721680.jpegImage Enlarger
0CCD421D-FB12-4455-829A-AAF8B6CEA18B.jpegImage Enlarger
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September 11, 2019
6:27 pm
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I believe that it folds just as the picture shows. The one on the gun is in backwards.

September 11, 2019
6:46 pm
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Chuck said
I believe that it folds just as the picture shows. The one on the gun is in backwards.  

Thanks Chuck I have to agree. I checked another rifle and it was the opposite of this one also. I wasn’t sure cuz the bead is now at the back of the folded down part but it’s still as visible as the opposite way. Maybe this way it protects the bead a little also.

AG

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September 11, 2019
6:47 pm
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The one on the gun is a Lyman 5 not a Beach and it is on backwards or the globe was put on backwards.

Bob

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September 11, 2019
6:50 pm
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Ok thanks Bob. I couldn’t tell from the wear if it was pins or screws to determine Beach or Lyman but maybe it’s the globe you can identify as being Lyman. I couldn’t read Lyman on the top either.

AG

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September 11, 2019
7:05 pm
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Lyman-Sight.jpgImage Enlarger1873man said
The one on the gun is a Lyman 5 not a Beach and it is on backwards or the globe was put on backwards.

Bob  

I really didn't look at the sight close.  But now that I have isn't it missing the ivory bead?  Sorry Bob for how my picture posted?

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September 11, 2019
7:24 pm
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Chuck said

Lyman-Sight.jpgImage Enlarger1873man said
The one on the gun is a Lyman 5 not a Beach and it is on backwards or the globe was put on backwards.

Bob  

I really didn't look at the sight close.  But now that I have isn't it missing the ivory bead?  Sorry Bob for how my picture posted?  

That could be true as well Chuck. The little post is clear enough to see Np but maybe it did have an ivory bead in front of it. There’s no hole there or indentation tho.

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September 11, 2019
8:27 pm
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AG said 
I couldn’t tell from the wear if it was pins or screws to determine Beach or Lyman but maybe it’s the globe you can identify as being Lyman. I couldn’t read Lyman on the top either.

AG  

There are other differences, such as the shape of the post, but only the Beach sports the tiny knob on the top of the globe; which in early references is identified as an aid to flipping the globe up, not an aiming point (though it might be used for that purpose).  If the underside was visible, you'd also see the spring which holds it tight against the barrel when folded down.

September 11, 2019
8:31 pm
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AG said

The little post is clear enough to see Np but maybe it did have an ivory bead in front of it. There’s no hole there or indentation tho.  

Sure it's not just plugged with dirt?  That tiny little "tit" was not supposed to be the aiming point.

September 11, 2019
9:39 pm
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clarence said

Sure it's not just plugged with dirt?  That tiny little "tit" was not supposed to be the aiming point.  

I just tried to take a close up photo. I think you’re right Clarence. When I zoom in on the pic below, it looks like a fragment of aged ivory (yellowish) is present. Probably chipped away during the last 130yrs.

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September 11, 2019
10:13 pm
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AG said

I just tried to take a close up photo. I think
You’re right Clarence. When I zoom in on the pic below, it looks like a fragment of aged ivory (yellowish) is present. Probably chipped away during the last 130yrs.

987DA728-F31F-42D4-A661-E74113078DC5.jpegImage Enlarger
AE36AE4E-50D3-4ED3-B9B9-14BDFA08F2B7.jpegImage Enlarger  

AG, look at the front of the sight. Do you see a small round hole or ivory bead in the center of the base? I'm thinking that you should as I suspect an ivory pin runs from front to rear in it, and when it has become to hard too see the bead, the pin can be pushed to the rear and form a larger sighting bead.
James

September 11, 2019
10:14 pm
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Thanks Janes, will have a look shortly.

AG

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September 11, 2019
11:12 pm
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jwm94 said

 I'm thinking that you should as I suspect an ivory pin runs from front to rear in it, and when it has become to hard too see the bead, the pin can be pushed to the rear and form a larger sighting bead.
James  

Would be interesting to try this (though it will probably be stuck fast), but the part of the ivory that forms the post looks like it's larger in diameter than that hole in the bottom.  I'm calling it a post, rather than a bead, because the one I checked has a flat, rectangular, face, which does not reflect light coming from the side the way a true cylinder would.    

This was the first shape used on the original #5.  Later, a 5A was added that had a true, round bead, but it was mounted parallel to the barrel, not perpendicular.  There was also a 5B with an all-steel post. 

September 11, 2019
11:13 pm
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Here is what the back side of the Lyman looks like.  See the white dot, this can be pushed toward the other side until it is even with the small metal post.

IMG_0500.jpgImage Enlarger

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September 11, 2019
11:24 pm
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clarence said

Would be interesting to try this (though it will probably be stuck fast), but the part of the ivory that forms the post looks like it's larger in diameter than that hole in the bottom.  I'm calling it a post, rather than a bead, because the one I checked has a flat, rectangular, face, which does not reflect light coming from the side the way a true cylinder would.    

This was the first shape used on the original #5.  Later, a 5A was added that had a true, round bead, but it was mounted parallel to the barrel, not perpendicular.  There was also a 5B with an all-steel post.   

From the sight book:

2A0C8C2D-DBBD-417A-9F1C-BEE7516C41B6.jpegImage Enlarger

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September 11, 2019
11:27 pm
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I’m not aware of what the “barleycorn” is ?

AG

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September 11, 2019
11:30 pm
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Chuck said
Here is what the back side of the Lyman looks like.  See the white dot, this can be pushed toward the other side until it is even with the small metal post.

IMG_0500.jpgImage Enlarger  

Thanks, Chuck.  That's what I thought.  Here's one on a Model 1890:

https://i.imgur.com/C6IsbbN.jpgImage Enlarger

September 11, 2019
11:38 pm
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clarence said

Would be interesting to try this (though it will probably be stuck fast), but the part of the ivory that forms the post looks like it's larger in diameter than that hole in the bottom.  I'm calling it a post, rather than a bead, because the one I checked has a flat, rectangular, face, which does not reflect light coming from the side the way a true cylinder would.    

This was the first shape used on the original #5.  Later, a 5A was added that had a true, round bead, but it was mounted parallel to the barrel, not perpendicular.  There was also a 5B with an all-steel post.   

I would not want to try it either, not with Murphy's Law ever-present!!  The picture of the sight I just posted up has the rounded bead.

September 11, 2019
11:49 pm
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AG said
I’m not aware of what the “barleycorn” is ?

AG  

Instead of the ivory bead (5B) or ivory post(5) it has a steel post(5A). The ivory post(5) is 1/16" in diameter and can be tapped up from the bottom but you need to be very careful with the sight when doing that. It has to be removed from the gun and the globe held in a Aluminum padded vice. If you try tapping it while in the gun you will probably shear the pivot pins and have to look for the globe on the floor.

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September 11, 2019
11:56 pm
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1873man said

Instead of the ivory bead (5B) or ivory post(5) it has a steel post(5A). The ivory post(5) is 1/16" in diameter and can be tapped up from the bottom but you need to be very careful with the sight when doing that. It has to be removed from the gun and the globe held in a Aluminum padded vice. If you try tapping it while in the gun you will probably shear the pivot pins and have to look for the globe on the floor.

Bob  

Thanks for all the details, Bob.

James

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