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https://www.ebay.com/itm/224277261693?ul_noapp=true
From his “personal” collection. Note what he says about the leather case & also that no other sight will mount on this base. Tempted to ask him what he’ll pay for another one just like it which I have mounted on a HW.
Florida, of course.
If you have a sight like this for sale and is cheaper, i’ll buy it from you.
Manuel said
If you have a sight like this for sale and is cheaper, i’ll buy it from you.
Manual, it’s on my fairly early Special Sporting HW–the best one I ever had or will have. Even though it’s not original to the rifle, it’s been there a long time & I don’t have any good replacement of about the same age. However, I will think the matter over.
When you see someone asking a ridiculous price for something, the way to expose their greed is to ask what they’d PAY for another one–probably only a small fraction of what they’re asking.
clarence said
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224277261693?ul_noapp=trueFrom his “personal” collection. Note what he says about the leather case & also that no other sight will mount on this base. Tempted to ask him what he’ll pay for another one just like it which I have mounted on a HW.
Florida, of course.
Please correct me if I read this wrong . The way I read the sellers add , was that the upright could be removed so that other sights ” Can ” be used on the base , (not sure how many do that ) . Always have been interested in these old tang sights . What part is he lying about , is it the leather case part ? And did these sights come in a leather case ? As far as the price goes , every time I have purchased an old sight it was over priced according to the Missus .,,,DT
The mid range and long range vernier came in a case but not the standard Lyman, At least I haven’t seen one. The staff can be removed from the base by removing the thumb screw but if you had the standard Lyman staff there wasn’t much call for it. If you had a midrange or long range staff then removing it while transporting the gun would be a good idea.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
The mid range and long range vernier came in a case but not the standard Lyman, At least I haven’t seen one.
No, of course not–like you said, what would be the point of carrying it in a separate case? Just BS from a phony “collector.”
By the way, Bob, I think you probably know that when Lyman first began advertising his sight, he was not providing bases for them, only the staff, which was intended to fit the factory base.
1873man said
The mid range and long range vernier came in a case but not the standard Lyman, At least I haven’t seen one. The staff can be removed from the base by removing the thumb screw but if you had the standard Lyman staff there wasn’t much call for it. If you had a midrange or long range staff then removing it while transporting the gun would be a good idea.Bob
Thank You Bob for clearing that up . I would think the sight’s pictured in the case are highly sought after and would bring a very pretty penny . Did Winchester actually build the sights pictured ? The reason I ask is that I have seen sights in a similar cased set labeled for Sharps . Just wondered if the sights were contracted out or actually built in house . May sound like a stupid question to you seasoned collectors , but you can’t learn if you don’t ask . Thanks DT .
Online
dusty texian said
Thank You Bob for clearing that up . I would think the sight’s pictured in the case are highly sought after and would bring a very pretty penny . Did Winchester actually build the sights pictured ? The reason I ask is that I have seen sights in a similar cased set labeled for Sharps . Just wondered if the sights were contracted out or actually built in house . May sound like a stupid question to you seasoned collectors , but you can’t learn if you don’t ask . Thanks DT .
It is my understanding that the cased sights were not manufactured in house. That stated, I do not know who was making them for Winchester (and the other firearms makers of that era). That cased set Bob has pictured is worth a small fortune!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I believe the sights and cases were farmed out to a company that made them for others as well but don’t know for sure. If Winchester made something themselves they were pretty good at stamping their name on it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bert H. and 1873man Thank you both for the info . Whoever made them did quality work . DT
clarence said
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224277261693?ul_noapp=trueFrom his “personal” collection. Note what he says about the leather case & also that no other sight will mount on this base. Tempted to ask him what he’ll pay for another one just like it which I have mounted on a HW.
Florida, of course.
Clarence,
I checked out the ebay auction you linked to, and I see nothing in it about a “personal” collection, or a “leather case”. Please clarify you post, or edit it so that it does not make unwarranted accusations.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Clarence,
I checked out the ebay auction you linked to, and I see nothing in it about a “personal” collection, or a “leather case”. Please clarify you post, or edit it so that it does not make unwarranted accusations.
Bert
Bert, that’s exactly what his description says. You think I made it up?
“RARE ANTIQUE LYMAN HEAVY BASE WITH FINE KNERLING ON UPRIGHT, TANG SIGHT FOR WINCHESTER 1866 1873. SIGHT HAS JAN. 1874 PAT. DATE. UPRIGHT IS REMOVABLE SO OTHER SIGHTS CAN BE USED ON BASE. THIS IS THE SIGHT THAT COMES IN THE LEATHER CASED WINCHESTER TARGET SIGHT SET. GREAT FOR ANTIQUE RIFLE, DISPLAY OR SIGHT COLLECTION. ONLY ONE I HAVE EVER OFFER FOR SALE FROM MY PERSONAL COLLECTION. PLEASE SEE PICTURES.”
clarence said
Bert, that’s exactly what his description says. You think I made it up?
“RARE ANTIQUE LYMAN HEAVY BASE WITH FINE KNERLING ON UPRIGHT, TANG SIGHT FOR WINCHESTER 1866 1873. SIGHT HAS JAN. 1874 PAT. DATE. UPRIGHT IS REMOVABLE SO OTHER SIGHTS CAN BE USED ON BASE. THIS IS THE SIGHT THAT COMES IN THE LEATHER CASED WINCHESTER TARGET SIGHT SET. GREAT FOR ANTIQUE RIFLE, DISPLAY OR SIGHT COLLECTION. ONLY ONE I HAVE EVER OFFER FOR SALE FROM MY PERSONAL COLLECTION. PLEASE SEE PICTURES.”
Clarence,
If that is what you are seeing in ebay listing, then you are seeing something that I am not. All I see is this;
“RARE ANTIQUE LYMAN HEAVY BASE FINE KNERLING TANG SIGHT FOR WINCHESTER 1866 1873”
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
You have to scroll down in the listing.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
What Bob posted is called “Long Range Vernier”,it has a 5″ staff, the “Mid-Range Vernier Sight” has a 3″ staff. The words Long Range never appeared on exterior of the case. It was first pictured in the May 1, 1878 Catalog and would completely disappear from Winchester catalogs in 1886. Information from Lewis Yearout’s book Winchester’s North West Mounted Police Carbines pages 167-171. T/R
1873man said
Bert,You have to scroll down in the listing.
Bob
Well now, I guess I did not look hard enough for it. That stated, I see nothing egregious about the description other than the seller may have unintentionally left out the word “Base” when he typed “This is the sight (base) that comes in the leather cased…”.
Calling him a “liar” was a bit overboard, and not necessary.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
“Dr. Don” DeMatteis is a highly reputable, honest and knowledgeable collector and seller of Winchester sights. Calling him a liar is clearly unwarranted and egregious!
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
1873man said
I believe the sights and cases were farmed out to a company that made them for others as well but don’t know for sure. If Winchester made something themselves they were pretty good at stamping their name on it.Bob
The cased Ballard sights look the same. The two bases are machined exactly alike except for the length. The cases are very similar to those made for drafting tools & other instruments, so one of the companies making them probably made them for Marlin & Win. It’s always cheaper to buy limited production specialty items from an outside maker than set up a production line, train workers, etc. During all the time Marlin made Ballards with cast receivers, they never set up their own foundry–it was cheaper to have them cast in a nearby private foundry.
Clarence, The probable contractor to the case and sights is listed in Yearout’s book page 170. He says the cases were probably produced by either the New York Case Co. or Gorham Siliverware Co. The sights were also a contract item, probably produced by Marlin Firearm Co., or Providence Tool Co., Sharps Rifle Co., The Lyman Co., as well as Bridgeport Implement Co. I don’t know, but Yearout offers the best information I’ve found. T/R
TR said
Clarence, The probable contractor to the case and sights is listed in Yearout’s book page 170. He says the cases were probably produced by either the New York Case Co. or Gorham Siliverware Co. The sights were also a contract item, probably produced by Marlin Firearm Co., or Providence Tool Co., Sharps Rifle Co., The Lyman Co., as well as Bridgeport Implement Co. I don’t know, but Yearout offers the best information I’ve found. T/R
BGI produced a myriad of good products, but nothing of theirs I’ve seen equals the quality of workmanship of these cased sights. Lyman can be ruled out positively, I’m sure of that–he just didn’t have time!–leaving I guess one of the 3 others as potential makers.
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