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The load I used for the target in my first post was 35gr (by volume) of Pyrodex RS with a 180gr Badman bullet (.401).
The smokeless loads I tried ranged from 8-12″ high at the same range.
The pyrodex load was by far the most accurate, (9 out of 10 in 1 hole) and closest to point of aim (3.5″ high).
Were the Winchester rifles sighted in for point of aim or 6 o’clock hold? I shoot point of aim
If I held a 6 o’clock hold it would almost bring thge group to dead center, but the rear sight would still be bottomed out…
Bill Hockett said
It is my opinion based on the manufacture date of your rifle, that the sights appear to be correct.
I’m not sure why it is shooting high. At the time that rifle was made black powder and a 180 grain bullet were standard for .38 WCF. Have you tried playing with the powder and bullet weight combinations?
His front sight is too short. He said it is .325″ but should be .435″. I don’t want to mess with any of my sights but I’ll take a look at them. I also have at least one repo that I can measure.
Jim Farris said
The load I used for the target in my first post was 35gr (by volume) of Pyrodex RS with a 180gr Badman bullet (.401).The smokeless loads I tried ranged from 8-12″ high at the same range.
The pyrodex load was by far the most accurate, (9 out of 10 in 1 hole) and closest to point of aim (3.5″ high).
Were the Winchester rifles sighted in for point of aim or 6 o’clock hold? I shoot point of aim
If I held a 6 o’clock hold it would almost bring thge group to dead center, but the rear sight would still be bottomed out…
Most of the old sights you aim at the 6 o’clock position. The faster the ammo the higher the bullet will hit the target. Less time for gravity to pull the bullet down.
I looked through my sights and I have a rear sight with and one with out the leaf. Both sights are the same height to the top of the ears. The one with the leaf appears to be shorter from the bottom of the sight to the lowest part of the notch. The problem is there is a slot for the elevator right where I want to measure. It does appear that the one with the leaf is shorter from the notch in the sight to the bottom by about .012″. This one should lower your point of impact. The only regular front sight I have is a repo. It is .381″ tall but is not two tone.
The sights with the leaf are much easier to make the notch lower.
I won’t sell any of my sights. I keep them just in case.
Online
Jim, If you wish to experiment and not do anything permanent to your existing sights (which seem to be correct), take a bit of brass wire and glue to the top of your existing front sight. That will make it taller and thus shoot lower. If it gets you on target, then you have a measurement to search for a replacement if you so wish. Choose what seems to be an adhesive that can be removed without removing blue or other original finish. Maybe something like green lock tight? Heat is supposed to soften it and it could be cleaned with acetone then. Just my ideas. I’ve not tried it on a sight like yours, but have on a flat topped blued sight on a model 1911 that worked so well I left it for years. Tim
Not for nothing he did say he was shooting at 25 yards. I shoot at a 25 yard target here at the house and I EXPECT it to be high by various amounts based on the caliber. But when I shoot my 100 and 125 yarders I get the boiler room every time. Mind you I am shooting 1886’s and 71’s. just a thought.
Pauline’s reference book, Winchester Repeating Arms Co., Standard Sight Equipment, January 1,1917 may help to provide definitive answers and eliminate any speculation regarding the op’s question(s) currently under discussion in this thread.
Standard Sight Equipment for the Model 73 (front sight, rear sight and elevator) is designated by both caliber and barrel length. Additionally, Factory Blueprints for all front sights (including dimensions) and rear sights are also in the book
If you can’t convince them, confuse them
tim tomlinson said
Jim, If you wish to experiment and not do anything permanent to your existing sights (which seem to be correct), take a bit of brass wire and glue to the top of your existing front sight. That will make it taller and thus shoot lower. If it gets you on target, then you have a measurement to search for a replacement if you so wish. Choose what seems to be an adhesive that can be removed without removing blue or other original finish. Maybe something like green lock tight? Heat is supposed to soften it and it could be cleaned with acetone then. Just my ideas. I’ve not tried it on a sight like yours, but have on a flat topped blued sight on a model 1911 that worked so well I left it for years. Tim
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll keep it in mind.
Tedk said
Pauline’s reference book, Winchester Repeating Arms Co., Standard Sight Equipment, January 1,1917 may help to provide definitive answers and eliminate any speculation regarding the op’s question(s) currently under discussion in this thread.Standard Sight Equipment for the Model 73 (front sight, rear sight and elevator) is designated by both caliber and barrel length. Additionally, Factory Blueprints for all front sights (including dimensions) and rear sights are also in the book
Great Idea, I forgot about her book. The book shows 9 21’s. A to J, no I. The 21 H with screw, later version of the one with no screw, is .435″ just as Stroebel said. She does not show the earliest 21 with no screw. Her book does not show any info on the 1866. Stroebel’s book says the 66 used a 21, no suffix. I bet this is the one with no screw.
oldcrankyyankee brought up a good point too. I would shoot at 100 yds and see what is going on before I make any changes. If you look at the early sight books the rear sight is graduated from 50 to 300 yards.
I’ve fired it out to 100yds, still higher then should be expected with the rear sight bottomed out.
By my rough calculations +3.5″ at 25 yds equates to @135 yrd zero with no ability to lower it.
I found a steel 21H sight w/ screw, probably buy it and try it.
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