January 20, 2023
OfflineYou would think I’d learned my lesson: not all double barrel shotguns use the Deeley forearm latch. Thie first time I ran into this was a few few years ago when I finally was able to buy a Browning Superposed. It was built in 1972, so it did not come with a manual but why should I care? I’d been using one double gun or another for a while. Are they not ever so easy to take down into 3 pieces by pulling the latch handle?
No, not all of them. Specifically, the last two shotguns on my 1956 wish list, a Superposed and a Winchester 21.
John Moses Browning was concerned the forearm of his Superposed gun might become mislaid or lost so it does not separate from the barrel assembly in the normal takedown process. You open the forearm latch, slide the forearm forward, then push the receiver’s barrel latch to the right and lift the barrel set off the receiver. The forearm stays with the barrels. You want to take it off the barrels? You better have a seriously extensive gunsmithing screwdriver bit set on hand.
Courtesy of YouTube, I learned what to do with the Browning. A shame I didn’t learn the larger lesson.
Fast forward to 2025 and my first and only Winchester Model 21, a 1947 Skeet gun happily built to prewar standards, e.g. finer and more extensive checkering than was soon thereafter to be the case.
The plan was for TxGunNut and me to break the gun in with a couple of rounds of Skeet, said plan hanging fire for too long.
For various reasons, the Winchester never got out of secure storage until last Wednesday, even though the first couple of days of the week were perfect for a round of Skeet. For those of you not familiar with North Texas Winter weather, “perfect” means no precipitation and calm. It can be very cold and still qualify but what the local cowboys call “breezy” will snatch your loaded, hard gun case off the shooting bench and send it ten yards downrange. It is relentless and you can’t hear yourself think, all the while you’re being slapped and pinched by stray objects and your own clothing. A car door can hurt you real bad.
Still, Mike offered to pull birds for me so I could try out the Winchester. Wednesday we met up at our club range (about a 45 minute drive North for me) despite a prairie wind that was grading up from moan to howl.
I had read up just enough to know how to take the Winchester down and put it into an aluminum hard case. While Mike patiently stood nearby, I set the case on my truck’s tailgate and tried to put the gun back together. Couldn’t do it. Tried harder and longer, without success, all the while becoming increasingly concerned about this floppy leaf spring sticking up out of![]()


the inletting and wondering where it was supposed to go when I pressed the beavertail forearm into place. No clue. Mike looked at it and asked if it might be broken. After about twenty minutes of trying not to bend the spring or break the very expensive-looking, thin and colorful forearm – while getting beaten up by the howling wind — we concluded wisdom was the better part of valor and closed the gun up in its case.
Back home, I was unable to find an exploded drawing of the Model 21 forearm assembly. Lots of illustrations of the receiver only. However, the “Tennessee Gunsmith” has a long, interesting video illustrating the job of making a replacement forearm from scratch for a Model 21, the original forearm of which had been cracked. I learned several things:
1. The leaf spring of concern is called the “forearm roller latch spring”. It holds tension on the latch when closed. The tip of the spring fits into an angle of a protrusion attached to the bottom of barrel set.
2. Mine is not broken but the reassembly should always be undertaken carefully, to avoid cracking off very expensive wood or distorting the spring.
3. The Model 21 should not be taken down unless the hammers are cocked. Doing so with uncocked hammers greatly increases the risk of damage if you are hamhanded.
4. The milling required to create the forearm latch inletting is complex, multilayered, requires an extrordinarily high level of skill and is very time consuming, compared to any other forearm design this gunsmith had seen. The work he turned out was beautiful but the price tag must have been frightening.
The video gave me my first real insight into why the Model 21 was not and could never be a production item.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
OfflineBill-
Glad you figured it out, I really wanted you to get to shoot it but we’ll have better days. The gentlemen with the skill to repair a Model 21 are a dying breed and I’m glad we didn’t push the issue. Beautiful gun! Wind died down enough this afternoon for Jeremy and me to have a great outing. Nearly 80 degrees in December and a mild breeze. Thank you, I’ll take a dozen of those! My other 75 Target (unmodified) is now sighted in with the Norma ammo and seems to like it quite well. Trigger a bit stiff but a nice, clean break. My 52C Target has a much better trigger but for some reason I really enjoy trigger time with my 75’s. I’m looking forward to getting your 52 Sporting sorted out, I’m pretty certain it’s a shooter.
Mike
December 9, 2002
OfflineZeb,
Great information here. This is one of those good examples of a collector sitting down with good intentions on doing something to a collectable firearm, and crossing that line of comfort and unknowing as many of us have been there before. You were smart in you’re approach to use caution, as age can give us wisdom. IMO!
The information we have at hand today, vs. yesteryear is phenomenal, and some of these videos sure are a big help.
Anthony
January 20, 2023
OfflineThanks all.
Mike, I neglected to mention your help figuring out the 52C Sporting front sight issue. (We didn’t go straight home but repaired to the short rimfire range, where I learned my front sight is too low, thanks to his manning his spotting scope. Note to self: a 15x-30x spotter is useless at 25 yards except to study the grain of the wood target frame, if you can find it.)
Chuck, Thanks and I’d be interested to know what Schwing has to say about the forearm latch assembly. I think Its design evidences old Frank Burton’s capacity and taste for elegance while achieving strength — once in place, that forearm isn’t going anywhere, no matter how many of JMO’S Super X Double X goose loads are burned off.
But the Deeley latch has prevailed because it achieves similar strength, is less demanding to build, and is less fragile when apart. Occam’s Razor has engineering applications.
Tim, Thanks for your good wishes. It’s comforting ours is not a solitary hobby. One member’s good luck is the good fortune of all our members. Scratching my half-Century’s itch for a Model 21 in the middle of a solitary forest, would not be nearly as much fun.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
OfflineAnthony said
Zeb,
Great information here. This is one of those good examples of a collector sitting down with good intentions on doing something to a collectable firearm, and crossing that line of comport and unknowing as many of us have been there before. You were smart in you’re approach to use caution, as age can give us wisdom. IMO!
The information we have at hand today, vs. yesteryear is phenomenal, and some of these videos sure are a big help.
Anthony
Although my ancestry is Scots/Irish/English and Deeley was a Scot, I have wondered whether he had taken a long look at some work out of Val de Trompa….
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 31, 2009
OfflineZebulon said
Chuck, Thanks and I’d be interested to know what Schwing has to say about the forearm latch assembly. I think Its design evidences old Frank Burton’s capacity and taste for elegance while achieving strength — once in place, that forearm isn’t going anywhere, no matter how many of JMO’S Super X
But the Deeley latch has prevailed because it achieves similar strength, is less demanding to build, and is less fragile when apart. Occam’s Razor has engineering applications.
I scanned the book and there isn’t much of anything about the latch. But, he does have a very limited Assembly and Disassembly section. The first thing it says under How to Take Down Your Model 21 is, Note- “For ease of reassembly keep both hammers cocked.” “It is far easier to assemble the forearm to the gun when the hammers are cocked and it will reduce the risk of bending the retainer and possibly cracking the forearm.”
One of the guys I hangout with at the gun shop helps the staff when there are issues with shotguns. I can’t count how many times he has had to re cock the hammers to get a barrel back on.
January 20, 2023
OfflineChuck, Thanks for looking. I’ve never tried to take this one down with uncocked hammers but it must be a real chore, based on all the warnings I’m hearing about.
Murphy, my legal advisor and frequent companion, suggests I consider an ugly full-length hard case. Something stout, not a “Harbor Freight ¤ grade” thin polymer shell lined with an inch of egg crate foam. Nor one of those oak-and-leather takedown cases that are pretty but expensive and not so practical on hunting trips.
I used to hunt doves and (preserve) quail and pheasants with a Pigeon Grade 101. It came with one of those leather trimmed, fabric covered, compartmented cases Winchester had made up in Italy.
Dove hunting in West Texas requires frequent breaks to get out of the heat and hydrate. Everybody else slid their guns into soft cases lying in pickup truck beds. I had to unwrap the hard case from inside an old quilt (to keep it from getting stained and/or dirty from sliding around in the pickup bed), then break the gun down and fit the pieces into the hard case. Then the reverse as we resumed the hunt. After doing that several times in a long day, I was tempted to just lean the gun against a handy Mesquite tree, a sure setup for disaster, particularly if somebody had brought his gorilla size, over-curious Labrador along.
¤ Not hating on Harbor Freight. Some stuff doesn’t have to be first quality. I love their magnetic small parts trays.
Maybe something by Pelican, if I can bear the pain.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
December 9, 2002
OfflineZeb,
These work out really well in the field, and do everything you need it to do, as you described in you’re application.
Anthony
November 7, 2015
OfflineI have a few two gun hard cases. I’m fairly stout but I’m glad one has wheels on it. I generally use a thick gun sock or a soft lined leather or canvas case for transportation. I have a couple of takedown shotgun cases but they seldom make it to the club and I can’t recall taking one to the field. They sure look nice, tho!
Mike
January 20, 2023
OfflineAnthony said
Zeb,
These work out really well in the field, and do everything you need it to do, as you described in you’re application.
https://www.proxibid.com/Guns-Military-Artifacts/Rifles/Bulldog-BDT-Tactical-Double-Rifle-Case/lotInformation/97988596
Anthony
Anthony, thanks for helping but I cant make the link work..
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
OfflineI sort of did a case inventory last night and have concluded I just need a well-padded Boyt full length soft case.
The one Zero Halliburton takedown case would serve for any shotgun I thought needed a softer ride. I don’t travel with guns by air – or without them either, given the cost.
The standout soft case is one I bought, a canvas takedown Boyt to tote my 62A around. Heavily padded and made to last, a full length one will do everything I need.
Like all the rest of us who trade, I’ve accumulated some dreck a piece came with –that i need to dispose of for lack of room.
I think I am going to sell my big 2018 impulse buy – from when I thought I’d make a Safari but didn’t. An Americase double scoped rifle carrier..Never used, just squats upright on the floor of my office like a Great Dane. Americase plant is still just South of Dallas but has quit making its milspec line of gun cases. I was able to drive down to Waxahatchie and pick mine up. The shipping cost would have been horrendous.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 31, 2009
OfflineI have a handful of the soft cases. I like the extra pockets. The one I used today is a Savior. Soft cases weigh way less and are easier to deal with.
January 20, 2023
OfflineAnthony, Thanks. Got it this time. Probably Frontier’s fault.
Chuck, those look good but seem to be made for rifles with the sprouted attachments and handles. Would a skinny shotgun flop around inside too much?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
Offline- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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