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Winchester 1897 Riot or Trench?
August 11, 2019
2:20 pm
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I believe I have been sold (by an auction house) a 1897 Riot Gun that was made to look like a Trench Gun. It was advertised as an 1897 Trench Gun. Unfortunately I did the research AFTER buying this gun!

1. No swivel on the rear stock 2. filled in bead hole on the barrel 3. no US or flaming bomb markings. 4. the heat shield bayonet holder is devoid of any markings except a "W".  5. threr are 3 cuts on the end of the barrel that appear to have no useful purpose. IMG_1949.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1950.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1951.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1952.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1953.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1954.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1955.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1956.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1957.JPGImage Enlarger

Anybody have any idea what I have here, execpt a piece of junk? I am beyond the 3 day inspection, so I doubt if I can get my money back. Serial number is in the 812,000 range, which I believe puts the mfg date around 1931. Thanks, Dick

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August 11, 2019
3:47 pm
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Fake trenchgun. Original handguard that has been parkerized. Bead removed from Bbl.   Hope you didn't pay much.   Big Larry

August 11, 2019
5:08 pm
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Bayonet mount is probably a correct WW II mount.  Most else is wrong.  Here is a chart I made.  It is not perfect so let me know if I need to make changes.

August 11, 2019
8:32 pm
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Chuck said
Bayonet mount is probably a correct WW II mount.  Most else is wrong.  Here is a chart I made.  It is not perfect so let me know if I need to make changes.  

Yes, the handguard is of WW2 vntage, but appears to be parkerized over the original, beautiful blue they had. The first batch of WW2 handguards had 6 rows of holes and were unmarked. The handguards were unmarked until the end of production and were mainly used for replace or repair. The "W" was used to show the difference between them and the "S" marked Stevens. The handguards for the extremely rare Ithaca M37 Trenchgun were unmarked. The buttplates were either plastic or composition rubber.  In my collection, I have #955552, PR date of 3-24-43. It has a "42" dated bbl. with the factory ground off bead. GHD cartouche. It is in a good 98 to 99% condition. No "W" on the handguard.   Big Larry

 

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August 11, 2019
11:14 pm
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Thank you for all that replied. I did pay $1,114.00 through Cowan's Auctions, as they advertised it as a 1897 Trench Gun.  Interesting enough the item before was also a trench gun that they said was put together form various parts. They didn't state that on the one I bid on, so I thought (foolishly) that it was correct. 

August 12, 2019
12:16 am
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Richard Pike said
Thank you for all that replied. I did pay $1,114.00 through Cowan's Auctions, as they advertised it as a 1897 Trench Gun.  Interesting enough the item before was also a trench gun that they said was put together form various parts. They didn't state that on the one I bid on, so I thought (foolishly) that it was correct.   

Get your $$$ back. It is not a Trenchgun and never was.   Big LarryYellYellYellFrownFrownFrown

August 12, 2019
7:14 pm
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Big Larry said

Get your $$$ back. It is not a Trenchgun and never was.   Big LarryYellYellYellFrownFrownFrown  

Get your money back and don't buy from online auctions.  Buy Bruce Canfield's book, A Collector's Guide to Winchester in the Service. Covers a little on all of the Winchesters used in the military.

Larry, I knew about the 6/4 holes but didn't put that on my cheat sheet.  My assumption was that the butt plates were probably hard rubber.  I have never heard about the "factory ground off bead"?

August 12, 2019
9:58 pm
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Chuck said

Get your money back and don't buy from online auctions.  Buy Bruce Canfield's book, A Collector's Guide to Winchester in the Service. Covers a little on all of the Winchesters used in the military.

Larry, I knew about the 6/4 holes but didn't put that on my cheat sheet.  My assumption was that the butt plates were probably hard rubber.  I have never heard about the "factory ground off bead"?  

Personally, I don't know why a bead was added to the bbl. and then ground off. Some say they were originally made for riotguns and then modified for the trenchguns and the beads ground off. In any event, it was factory work. The finished product is superb. I have also seen M12 Trenchguns with the beads ground off. I think these are mentioned in one of Mr. Canfields books. My gun was evidently sold or given to a PD. It has, in very small letters stamped into the pistol grip, JPD 6. Cannot find out what they mean.   Big Larry

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