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July 23, 2026
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I know it is Black diamond and in great shape. In our family for close to 80 years. Mfg in 1911. No rust or scratches in metal and serial numbers match on both pieces. Trying to figure out best way to get it worth and providence
December 25, 2016
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Reblued and refinished means no collector value. That’s my take but will defer to those more learned than I. What is the barrel length and choke? You have a nice family heirloom shooter IMO. Take good care of it for the next generation. The auction sites like Gunbroker make common guns pretty easy to value. Do not waste time with asking prices, the seller may know less about 1897 shotguns than you do. Look at the closed auctions, green means sold.
July 23, 2026
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Ricklin said
Reblued and refinished means no collector value. That’s my take but will defer to those more learned than I. What is the barrel length and choke? You have a nice family heirloom shooter IMO. Take good care of it for the next generation. The auction sites like Gunbroker make common guns pretty easy to value. Do not waste time with asking prices, the seller may know less about 1897 shotguns than you do. Look at the closed auctions, green means sold.
Thank you this helps. It is 30” full choke and seems to have all the right numbers. I am not sure about the refinishing. It was originally my great grandfathers gun and really had very little use. Between my dad and I we have done nothing to it for last 50 plus years. Just sat in nice gun cabinets. Action is all very tight which is good. I hope to find and expert who can determine if bluing has been redone. It kind of make sense it was as it is 114 year old.
March 31, 2009
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The shotgun looks brand new if not refinished at some time. You need someone to take a better look at it for you. Hopefully one of the experts will respond.
January 8, 2025
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I agree with Chuck. You may have a real gem there.
October 14, 2024
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I love the 1897 black diamond shotguns; I suspect that it has been refinished. The ventilated recoil pad is a strong indicator of this.
January 8, 2025
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I didn’t see a picture of the barrel address. The action bar stamps don’t look like they have been polished. The receiver polish looks good to me, but I have no clue. Just my observations
April 15, 2005
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Positively a refinished gun. Both the wood & steel have been refinished, and the recoil pad is an aftermarket alteration. If the stock was cut (shortened) to install the recoil pad, that further degrades to gun.
What is the serial number? With it, I can determine the precise date of manufacture (day, month, & year). Does it have a matted barrel and receiver top?
Have you read my recent article – 2026 Spring (winchestercollector.org)
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 25, 2016
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Thanks for that Bert. I could not get the link to work. From the pics it does look like a high quality refinishing job. I know enough to be dangerous. The gun in question looks hot blued to my eye. Were not the early 1897’s rust blued?
Funny, a British best gun can go back to it’s maker and be refinished and be worth more after. Not the case here in the good old USA where manufacturer’s don’t offer refinishing. Maybe Colt still does?
I don’t know the status of factory records on the 1897, there is darn little for the model 12. Be really wary of fakes when collecting Winchester shotguns in general. There are lots of folks here way more knowledgeable than myself. Always post pics and serial numbers when enquiring.
April 15, 2005
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Ricklin said
Thanks for that Bert. I could not get the link to work. From the pics it does look like a high quality refinishing job. I know enough to be dangerous. The gun in question looks hot blued to my eye. Were not the early 1897’s rust blued?
Funny, a British best gun can go back to it’s maker and be refinished and be worth more after. Not the case here in the good old USA where manufacturer’s don’t offer refinishing. Maybe Colt still does?
I don’t know the status of factory records on the 1897, there is darn little for the model 12. Be really wary of fakes when collecting Winchester shotguns in general. There are lots of folks here way more knowledgeable than myself. Always post pics and serial numbers when enquiring.
As a WACA Guest, you do not have access to the Winchester Collector magazine archives (you need to be a WACA Member in good standing). I will encourage you to become a full WACA member versus a Guest.
Yes, the pre-1939 Model 1897s were manufactured with a “rust” blued barrel and magazine tube. The receiver frames were “machine” blued.
The factory ledger records exist (at the CFM records office) for the Model 1897 through serial number 377999. The Polishing Room (PR) serialization records are complete through the end of production (s/n 1024701) on September 30th, 1957. For the Model 1912 (12), only the PR records exist.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 25, 2016
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Good deal, I may get one of those round tuits for WACA. The pad and the very slight wear where the slide runs on the mag tube were both major clues. Even in pictures original has a softer look and honest wear is impossible to fake. Old and original guns are not shiny. Light reflects more softly.
I think the best advice is as always, homework. When you get the rare opportunity to examine an unaltered original take note. And enquiring here is among the things smart guys do.
Bravo on posting pics from the git go, makes all the difference. You have a neat old 97 there, do avoid steel shot. You might consider opening the choke as the gun has limited usefulness today. While the old boys at Winchester bored some great chokes, those chokes were designed for fiber wads and cardboard. Modern plastic wads shoot about one choke tighter in the old guns, that makes a Winchester full mighty tight.
I like Mike Orlen in MA. for barrel work he is all that, fast, reasonable and superb work. Were that my gun? Cut it back to 26 or 27 and have Mike screw choke it. The gun is a shooter so shoot the darn thing.
I like screw in chokes on classic guns, keeps the look the same as ever, and makes the gun FAR more useful. You could also give trap shooting a go, if your personality leans toward perfection give trap a go.
Mike did a real nice old Remington 31 I had, the true ball bearing pump gun, yes smoother than an M12. Mike cut it back to 27 moved the bead and supplied 3 chokes. Once almost useless now a fine old all rounder. Less than 250 bucks just a few years ago. You only need to ship the barrel which is not a gun.
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