Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Trench Gun Barrel
December 20, 2019
4:51 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
December 19, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

First time posting. Not sure where to post this
Not For sale

Picked this up at a Gun Show.
Winchester Trench Gun. Fixed Receiver Model 1897

It's a 12 Ga 20" with the 3 three grooved area for screws for the Trench gun Shroud
Appears to be un used, with grease still inside the bore, no markings on barrel from use Bluing is 98%

Has a 41- and index mark on the bottom of barrel and No proof marks any where on the barrel.

But .... seems to be strange. the Barrel is Marked Made in THE U.S.A and the 2 /3/4 CHAM CYL" is in different script.
Last Patent date isJuly 5 1910

What might I have here? Thanks

Image Enlarger

 

Image EnlargerImage Enlarger

Image Enlarger

December 20, 2019
7:07 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1263
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You need to give us the serial number to date the gun.  All WWI guns were solid frames.  WWII are not. Your pictures did not work.  Hopefully someone will tell you how to do it.

December 20, 2019
10:16 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1394
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah, like asking about a car without giving the model year.  Big LarryConfusedConfused

December 20, 2019
10:40 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
December 19, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just a Barrel.      No serial numbers, no proof marks

I used the Image tool. Have these on a server. I can click on the  image to  show.

Image Enlarger

Image Enlarger

Image Enlarger

br_win_trench.jpgImage Enlarger

br_win_trench_04.jpgImage Enlarger

December 21, 2019
10:29 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1263
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

David7843@aol.com said
First time posting. Not sure where to post this
Not For sale

Picked this up at a Gun Show.
Winchester Trench Gun. Fixed Receiver Model 1897

It's a 12 Ga 20" with the 3 three grooved area for screws for the Trench gun Shroud
Appears to be un used, with grease still inside the bore, no markings on barrel from use Bluing is 98%

Has a 41- and index mark on the bottom of barrel and No proof marks any where on the barrel.

But .... seems to be strange. the Barrel is Marked Made in THE U.S.A and the 2 /3/4 CHAM CYL" is in different script.
Last Patent date isJuly 5 1910

What might I have here? Thanks

Image Enlarger

 

Image EnlargerImage Enlarger

Image Enlarger  

David, I'm sorry.  I can actually load your pictures.  I am not an expert and have never removed a barrel.  It looks to me that it is a standard barrel for a riot or guard gun except for the 3 notches. The 41 probably is the year of the barrel? It could have been intended for a trench gun but it doesn't have the US inspection marks.  Barrel address and markings look OK to me.

December 22, 2019
7:34 pm
Avatar
Tom Doniphon
Guests

41 is the barrel date.  It seems to be a pre WWII barrel.  It was just around the time of WWII that Winchester changed the barrel markings to include the "Model 97" designation on the barrel.  Earlier barrels do not have the "Model 97" designation on them.  But the replacement barrels usually have the Winchester "WP" mark on top and also a P in an oval which is the Winchester mark for a replacement barrel.

Is there any evidence of the barrel ever having a front sight bead?

December 22, 2019
8:39 pm
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 9667
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tom Doniphon said
41 is the barrel date.  It seems to be a pre WWII barrel.  It was just around the time of WWII that Winchester changed the barrel markings to include the "Model 97" designation on the barrel.  Earlier barrels do not have the "Model 97" designation on them.  But the replacement barrels usually have the Winchester "WP" mark on top and also a P in an oval which is the Winchester mark for a replacement barrel.

Is there any evidence of the barrel ever having a front sight bead?  

Yes, the "41" is the barrel date, but you are incorrect concerning when Winchester added the "MODEL 97" designation marking on the barrels.  That change occurred in the year 1930 (near serial number 850000).

The barrel in question is a conundrum to say the least.  I believe that it was not proofed because it was not intended to be a mail order replacement part.  Instead, it was an in-house part to be used if a gun was returned for repair, and it would have been proofed after installation.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

December 22, 2019
10:30 pm
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2288
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Bert-

Is it possible this barrel left the factory during a sell-off of “obsolete” parts or following one of the ownership changes? We all know Winchester never threw anything away but I suspect they sold off excess parts inventory now and then.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
December 23, 2019
1:06 am
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 9667
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TXGunNut said
Bert-

Is it possible this barrel left the factory during a sell-off of “obsolete” parts or following one of the ownership changes? We all know Winchester never threw anything away but I suspect they sold off excess parts inventory now and then.

 Mike  

That is what I suspect it is... a parts sell off after the Model 97 was discontinued in the late 1050s.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

December 23, 2019
3:32 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
December 19, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

No provision for a bead, on the barrel. Yep the Barrel threw me for a loop.  Not being  proofed, W or P. The made in USA  was weird too?

Thanks Folks.

Dave

December 23, 2019
8:33 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1263
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

After thinking about this for awhile it is a trench gun barrel.  It just was never put on a gun. The notches are for the handguard.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: Old Guns
57 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 6964

Posts: 56625


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 945

Members: 9000

Moderators: 5

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 4157

twobit: 2538

TXGunNut: 2288

Maverick: 1496

clarence: 1438

Big Larry: 1394

Chuck: 1263

JWA: 1244

Wincacher: 1181

Brad Dunbar: 1076

Navigation