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I’m not much of a shotgun guy but have owned quite a few. My focus with shotguns has been for hunting/shooting vs. collecting. I’ve owned Model 12’s and at one time owned a Model 25. It seems there has never been any love or interest in Model 25’s. Why? Aren’t they basically a solid frame version of the Model 12? Various Winchester lever actions came in takedown versions and solid frame versions. I don’t see the solid frame guns shunned as I see M25’s shunned. Was the takedown feature of the Model 12 used that much?
Collectors generally like rarity. With around 2 million Model 12’s made and just under 88,000 Model 25’s made.
I’ve read the Model 25 has commonly been termed the, “poor man’s Model 12” and Winchester brought it out in response to dealer’s complaints about the high cost of the Model 12. So, to own one is to acquire the label, “poor man”?
Curious about other’s opinions.
Steve,
I have no interest in any Winchester shotgun that was not invented and patented by JMB. My collection has Model 1887s, 1893s, 1897s, and one Single Shot (high-wall) 20-ga. My most recent addition was a decent (honest) bona fide antique Model 1897 Field grade gun.
The only other Winchester shotgun I own was my Grandfather’s 1926 production 32″ Solid Ribbed Full choke 12-ga.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The Model 25 is in fact unique. I think that if the Collector can find one unaltered, and in excellent condition it would be a nice addition to ones collection. It is a gun that you can buy at a modest cost Today, and I feel that it would be more valueable in days to come. For the beginner Winchester collector the shotguns maybe the more affordable, and exciting way to collect. Since many Winchester rifles would be cost prohibited for the young collector. The Model 20 is a neat little .410, the 41 is the only bolt action shotgun Winchester made , with the exception of the Model 36 9 MM shotgun garden gun. The Model 12 needs no introduction. The Model 50, and 59 are nice shotguns found in many different styles. Look for high condition guns, and I feel that this can be very rewarding.
Bert H. said
Steve,I have no interest in any Winchester shotgun that was not invented and patented by JMB. My collection has Model 1887s, 1893s, 1897s, and one Single Shot (high-wall) 20-ga. My most recent addition was a decent (honest) bona fide antique Model 1897 Field grade gun.
The only other Winchester shotgun I own was my Grandfather’s 1926 production 32″ Solid Ribbed 12-ga.
Bert
You stole that 1897…
Chuck said
Bert H. said
Steve,
I have no interest in any Winchester shotgun that was not invented and patented by JMB. My collection has Model 1887s, 1893s, 1897s, and one Single Shot (high-wall) 20-ga. My most recent addition was a decent (honest) bona fide antique Model 1897 Field grade gun.
The only other Winchester shotgun I own was my Grandfather’s 1926 production 32″ Solid Ribbed 12-ga.
Bert
You stole that 1897…
Yes, I did get it at a very reasonable cost. However, I seem to remember giving you the first shot at bidding on it. I believe that I got it cheap because it was incorrectly listed as a “modern” gun. When the auction company contacted me after it sold, they asked me for an FFL… I had to educate them (with the CFM research sheet that I had ordered) that it was not a “modern” gun. They were rather shocked and commented to me during the phone call that “you got it cheap!”… I laughed and thanked them!
For those who are wondering – Winchester Solid Frame 1897 Pump Shotgun – Kramer Auction LLC (kramersales.com)
All of this proves, is that even an old blind squirrel can still find a nice acorn once in awhile!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said When the auction company contacted me after it sold, they asked me for an FFL… I had to educate them (with the CFM research sheet that I had ordered) that it was not a “modern” gun. Bert H. said
To plenty of dealers, that makes NO diff–they make up their own “laws.” I was forced to provide FFL for Stevens SS built 1880s bought on GB. Another dealer demanded same for M1892 Krag, but that one I refused to buy.
clarence said
Bert H. said When the auction company contacted me after it sold, they asked me for an FFL… I had to educate them (with the CFM research sheet that I had ordered) that it was not a “modern” gun. Bert H. said
To plenty of dealers, that makes NO diff–they make up their own “laws.” I was forced to provide FFL for Stevens SS built 1880s bought on GB. Another dealer demanded same for M1892 Krag, but that one I refused to buy.
Auction houses generally are not like “plenty of dealers”. Simply provide the needed proof and they are more than happy to send the gun on its way. When I mentioned that I had published a detailed list of Antique Winchester serial cut-off numbers, they even asked if I could send them the list for future reference (which I did).
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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I wouldn’t mind having a Model 25 (or a Model 50) if I found one I liked. I don’t expect to find the Model 12’s level of finish on the 25 but suspect it is well made. One with a 26” IC or a Riot Gun may make a fun Skeet gun but I’ve never handled one.
I’ve filled out 4473’s on antiques, I don’t even offer to give them my C&R at the Orphanage any more. They have so much turnover it’s probably best to stick with the KISS principle and do paperwork on every transfer. When dealing with out of state stores they generally have someone available that knows how to handle it correctly.
At my first Cody show a Utah dealer insisted on shipping an 1873 Springfield built in 1880 to a Texas FFL…and the Texas FFL had me do a 4473. I didn’t know any better at the time.
Mike
TXGunNut said
At my first Cody show a Utah dealer insisted on shipping an 1873 Springfield built in 1880 to a Texas FFL…and the Texas FFL had me do a 4473. I didn’t know any better at the time.
That Utah imbecile was beyond crazy & beyond stupid! Certainly ought to be barred in the future from Cody! Aside from the extra cost to you, guns as long as that Spfd are particularly vulnerable to broken stocks in shipment. I caved in to the imbecile selling the Stevens I referred to because it was a VERY rare gun, but as I later reflected on my spinelessness in doing so, my remorse was so great that I sold the gun not long afterwards. That kind of ignorance should be opposed as a moral imperative.
Based on my limited knowledge of the Model 25, I assume the riot gun version is rare? Here’s one I ran across. I don’t know if it is real or not.
steve004 said
Based on my limited knowledge of the Model 25, I assume the riot gun version is rare? Here’s one I ran across. I don’t know if it is real or not.
I can find no references that confirm Winchester manufactured any Model 25 Riot Guns. Production of the Model 25 took place from March 1949 through December 1954 (just 88,000 were produced). The catalogs do not list or indicate that a 20-inch Riot Gun was offered. Barring solid (irrefutable) evidence to the contrary, the gun listed on GI should be considered somebody’s fantasy or Fake.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Now I know why I never recalled seeing a M25 riot gun. So, not factory work. I suppose that leaves the possibility that the West Virginia State Police had it modified to this configuration?
steve004 said
Now I know why I never recalled seeing a M25 riot gun. So, not factory work. I suppose that leaves the possibility that the West Virginia State Police had it modified to this configuration?
Maybe, but I personally doubt it. I would view the W.V.S.P. marking as part of “the story” behind the motivation to sell that gun for the asking price. If I were truly interested in that gun, I would contact the West Virginia State Police and see if they had any records of disposed firearms.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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