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model 97 in 16 ga.
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March 2, 2024 - 11:42 pm
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I inherited a model 97 that is in 16 gauge. Was wondering if anyone has a survey to tell me how many were made in that gauge.  

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March 3, 2024 - 1:20 am
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Silly question!  Yes, I have a detailed survey of the Model 1897 (97).

For those that do not know, I will start with a few background facts;

Production of the Model 1897 began on May 24th, 1897.  The Model 1897 serialization was a continuation of the predecessor Model 1893 serial number sequence.  The first Model 1897 manufactured bore s/n 34151.  Like its predecessor Model 1893, the Model 1897 was offered in 12-gauge only, but with a longer 2 ¾” chamber versus the 2 ⅝” chamber.

In March of 1899, Winchester introduced the Model 1897 in 16-guage.  The first 16-ga gun listed in the records was serial number 70605 (Polishing Room date 3/21/1899).  The chamber length for the early 16-ga guns was 2 9/16”.  When production began, the 16-ga was a slow seller, but over time it gained popularity.

The original Warehouse ledger records exist for the first 377,999 Model 1893/1897 shotguns.  My research has confirmed that there were 34,180 Model 1893 shotguns manufactured, and 341,593 Model 1897 shotguns manufactured that can be lettered.  Of the 341,593 Model 1897 shotguns, the survey conducted by the CFM records office is as follows;

Model 1897 CFM Survey
Gauge Quantity % of Total
17 16 0.005%
16 26,462 7.747%
12 311,005 91.045%
11 1 0.003%
Blank 3021 0.884%
Parts 775 0.227%
Broken-up 313 0.092%

Per the CFM survey we can see that 26,462 (or 7.75%) Model 1897 (97) 16-ga guns were manufactured.

Now, based on my own research survey of the Model 1897 (97) which includes all of the serial numbers in the 34151 – 1024701 range (990,521 total), the 16-ga accounts for 13.55% of the total.  Extrapolating that number forward indicates that approximately 134,175 16-ga Model 1897 (97) shotguns were manufactured during the nearly 60-year production run.

Bert

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March 3, 2024 - 4:39 am
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Bert, I have a 16ga ‘97 as well. I’ll post the s/n tomorrow to see if you want or need it!

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March 3, 2024 - 1:21 pm
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Bert – 

 

16 (sixteen) 17 gauges in the survey??Confused

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March 3, 2024 - 6:44 pm
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steve004 said
Bert – 

16 (sixteen) 17 gauges in the survey??Confused  

Yes… that is correct.  Jessica Bennett is the person who found them and then contacted me to discuss them.

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March 3, 2024 - 9:27 pm
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Bert H. said

steve004 said

Bert – 

16 (sixteen) 17 gauges in the survey??Confused  

Yes… that is correct.  Jessica Bennett is the person who found them and then contacted me to discuss them.

  

Very intriguing… so … were they actually 17 gauge guns?

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March 3, 2024 - 9:34 pm
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steve004 said

Bert H. said

steve004 said

Bert – 

16 (sixteen) 17 gauges in the survey??Confused  

Yes… that is correct.  Jessica Bennett is the person who found them and then contacted me to discuss them.

  

Very intriguing… so … were they actually 17 gauge guns?

  

I do not know the answer to that question.  They were found in the ledger records during the survey to document the number of guns in each gauge.  I need to chat with Jesi again about them for my own research project and future Model 1897 article.

Update – I found in my notes that all of them were found in 333706 – 374616 the serial number range.

Bert

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March 4, 2024 - 12:00 am
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Bert H. said

steve004 said

Bert H. said

steve004 said

Bert – 

16 (sixteen) 17 gauges in the survey??Confused  

Yes… that is correct.  Jessica Bennett is the person who found them and then contacted me to discuss them.

  

Very intriguing… so … were they actually 17 gauge guns?

  

I do not know the answer to that question.  They were found in the ledger records during the survey to document the number of guns in each gauge.  I need to chat with Jesi again about them for my own research project and future Model 1897 article.

Update – I found in my notes that all of them were found in 333706 – 374616 the serial number range.

Bert

  

I’m looking forward to that article Cool

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March 4, 2024 - 4:25 am
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Jeremy P said
Bert, I have a 16ga ‘97 as well. I’ll post the s/n tomorrow to see if you want or need it!

  

Bert, mine is s/n 436567 with a 28” bbl. If you need it for your survey…

to stay on topic, I’ve never even heard of 11 or 17 gauge!

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March 4, 2024 - 5:01 am
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I’m wondering if the 17 and/or 11 ga may have been some type of slug gun or special purpose shotgun but it’s too late for my addled brain to make much sense of it. 
Should be interesting.

 

Mike

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March 4, 2024 - 6:19 am
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Jeremy P said

Jeremy P said

Bert, I have a 16ga ‘97 as well. I’ll post the s/n tomorrow to see if you want or need it!

  

Bert, mine is s/n 436567 with a 28” bbl. If you need it for your survey…

to stay on topic, I’ve never even heard of 11 or 17 gauge!

  

Can you send me pictures of the slide bar marking and the barrel markings?  Is it a standard Field grade gun with a FULL choke?

Bert

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March 4, 2024 - 11:14 pm
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Bert H. said

Jeremy P said

Jeremy P said

Bert, I have a 16ga ‘97 as well. I’ll post the s/n tomorrow to see if you want or need it!

  

Bert, mine is s/n 436567 with a 28” bbl. If you need it for your survey…

to stay on topic, I’ve never even heard of 11 or 17 gauge!

  

Can you send me pictures of the slide bar marking and the barrel markings?  Is it a standard Field grade gun with a FULL choke?

Bert

  

Yes, standard/full. Pics sent to your email!  JP

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