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September 19, 2026
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I just joined this forum today to learn more about my small collection of Winchester shotguns, but specifically the model 97 black diamond I purchased today. I have posed several pics for your review and comments. The downside is it is missing the original butt plate and the slide bolt does not have TRAP stamped on it.
April 15, 2005
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Jim,
What you have is actually a “Tournament Gun” versus a Trap Gun. Winchester introduced it as a new variant in the year 1910. Your Tournament Gun was manufactured in August 1912.
What (if anything) is molded (marked) on the recoil pad? In the year 1912, Winchester would (on special order) fit the Model 1897 with a Silvers or Jotsam recoil pad.
I will assume that your gun has a 30-inch Full choke barrel, and that it is roll matted?
I recently wrote an article discussing the Model 1897 production (published in the Spring 2026 WACA Collector magazine – 2026 Spring (winchestercollector.org)
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
October 14, 2024
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Nice looking ’97. I have a sweet spot in my heart for English style stocks.
December 25, 2016
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You and I both Kevin. My old Elsie SBT is a straight gripped gun. I do prefer the straight grip IMO best paired with a small and compact fore end.My Elsie has the beavertail large fore end. I like the looks of the OP’s gun which suggests I will like the feel too.
I am OK with a pistol grip stock for targets. My 20 gauge wears a straight stock.
September 19, 2026
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Bert H. said
Jim,
What you have is actually a “Tournament Gun” versus a Trap Gun. Winchester introduced it as a new variant in the year 1910. Your Tournament Gun was manufactured in August 1912.
What (if anything) is molded (marked) on the recoil pad? In the year 1912, Winchester would (on special order) fit the Model 1897 with a Silvers or Jotsam recoil pad.
I will assume that your gun has a 30-inch Full choke barrel, and that it is roll matted?
I recently wrote an article discussing the Model 1897 production (published in the Spring 2026 WACA Collector magazine – 2026 Spring (winchestercollector.org)
Bert
 Â
Hi Bert,
Â
Thank you for the info on my 97. I have attached a few more pics to help answer your questions
Â
below is what I was able to find about the butt pad
The buttplate is a Jostam “Anti-Flinch” recoil pad, not an original Winchester part. These were made by the Jostam Manufacturing Company of Chicago, and the patent numbers trace two distinct versions: the earlier J.S. Day patent from October 29, 1914, and a later W.R. Jorgenson patent granted October 12, 1915. Since your gun was made in 1912–13 and this pad wasn’t even patented until 1914–15, this confirms it’s a period aftermarket accessory added sometime after the gun left the factory — not original equipment. That’s not a bad thing at all; Jostam Anti-Flinch pads are themselves genuinely collectible and hard to find today, to the point where collectors have reportedly bought entire “project guns” just to get one of these pads. So this is a nice period-correct addition, just not factory-original to this specific gun.
April 15, 2005
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Jim,
You are welcome, and the Jotsam recoil pad is definitely period correct to the gun. It has undoubtedly been on the butt stock for nearly the entire life of the gun, and very likely several years before Winchester began offering their own recoil pads (in 1922). It is possible that it was installed by Winchester during an “R&R”. What is the LOP?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 19, 2026
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Bert H. said
Jim,
You are welcome, and the Jotsam recoil pad is definitely period correct to the gun. It has undoubtedly been on the butt stock for nearly the entire life of the gun, and very likely several years before Winchester began offering their own recoil pads (in 1922). It is possible that it was installed by Winchester during an “R&R”. What is the LOP?
Bert
 Â
Attaching a pick for LOP. Do you think the butt was cut down to accommodate the pad?
September 19, 2026
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Jim91 said
Bert H. said
Jim,
You are welcome, and the Jotsam recoil pad is definitely period correct to the gun. It has undoubtedly been on the butt stock for nearly the entire life of the gun, and very likely several years before Winchester began offering their own recoil pads (in 1922). It is possible that it was installed by Winchester during an “R&R”. What is the LOP?
Bert
 ÂAttaching a pick for LOP. Do you think the butt was cut down to accommodate the pad?
Also, do you know if mine is a solid frame design (vs. a takedown design)? I don’t know if one is better or rarer than the other.
Again, very much appreciate the education!
April 15, 2005
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Jim91 said
Bert H. said
Jim,
You are welcome, and the Jotsam recoil pad is definitely period correct to the gun. It has undoubtedly been on the butt stock for nearly the entire life of the gun, and very likely several years before Winchester began offering their own recoil pads (in 1922). It is possible that it was installed by Winchester during an “R&R”. What is the LOP?
Bert
 ÂAttaching a pick for LOP. Do you think the butt was cut down to accommodate the pad?
 Â
Yes, the butt stock was shortened to install the recoil pad. It does appear to be vert close to the correct LOP for a Tournament Gun. Per the catalog description, the LOP for the Tournament Guns was 14″.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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Jim91 said  Â
Also, do you know if mine is a solid frame design (vs. a takedown design)? I don’t know if one is better or rarer than the other.
Again, very much appreciate the education!
Your gun is a Take Down. It is my belief that all of the Tournament Guns were Take Downs (no Solid frames).
Bert
 Â
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 19, 2026
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Bert H. said
Jim91 said
Bert H. said
Jim,
You are welcome, and the Jotsam recoil pad is definitely period correct to the gun. It has undoubtedly been on the butt stock for nearly the entire life of the gun, and very likely several years before Winchester began offering their own recoil pads (in 1922). It is possible that it was installed by Winchester during an “R&R”. What is the LOP?
Bert
 ÂAttaching a pick for LOP. Do you think the butt was cut down to accommodate the pad?
 ÂYes, the butt stock was shortened to install the recoil pad. It does appear to be vert close to the correct LOP for a Tournament Gun. Per the catalog description, the LOP for the Tournament Guns was 14″.
Bert
 Â
Bert,
Is there any way for me to research whether the recoil pad was installed by Winchester during an R&R?
April 15, 2005
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Jim91 said
Â
Bert,
Is there any way for me to research whether the recoil pad was installed by Winchester during an R&R?
 Â
Unfortunately, No, there is not. The original factory ledger records for the Model 1897 end at serial number 377999.Â
The clues that it may have been installed by Winchester are; (1) the type of pad that it is (Jotsam), (2) the black backing spacer, (3) the LOP, and (4) the fit to the stock.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 19, 2006
Offline
Jim91 said
Bert H. said
Jim,
What you have is actually a “Tournament Gun” versus a Trap Gun. Winchester introduced it as a new variant in the year 1910. Your Tournament Gun was manufactured in August 1912.
What (if anything) is molded (marked) on the recoil pad? In the year 1912, Winchester would (on special order) fit the Model 1897 with a Silvers or Jotsam recoil pad.
I will assume that your gun has a 30-inch Full choke barrel, and that it is roll matted?
I recently wrote an article discussing the Model 1897 production (published in the Spring 2026 WACA Collector magazine – 2026 Spring (winchestercollector.org)
Bert
 ÂHi Bert,
Â
Thank you for the info on my 97. I have attached a few more pics to help answer your questions
Â
below is what I was able to find about the butt pad
The buttplate is a Jostam “Anti-Flinch” recoil pad, not an original Winchester part. These were made by the Jostam Manufacturing Company of Chicago, and the patent numbers trace two distinct versions: the earlier J.S. Day patent from October 29, 1914, and a later W.R. Jorgenson patent granted October 12, 1915. Since your gun was made in 1912–13 and this pad wasn’t even patented until 1914–15, this confirms it’s a period aftermarket accessory added sometime after the gun left the factory — not original equipment. That’s not a bad thing at all; Jostam Anti-Flinch pads are themselves genuinely collectible and hard to find today, to the point where collectors have reportedly bought entire “project guns” just to get one of these pads. So this is a nice period-correct addition, just not factory-original to this specific gun. Â
All of this positive Jostam pad talk makes me feel a whole lot better about the Jostam pad on on my Burgess shotgun. I think my pad is a very early pad (but not of course original to the Burgess). It is marked, “NO KICK COMING RECOIL PAD” and, “PAT. 1842525”.
I did read in the Madis book that on special order Winchester would provide various recoil pads and this included Jostam pads. I assume this started about 1914.
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