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May 31, 2026
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Just got a garden-grade 97 (according to the serial number lists, 1920 mfg). Originally MOD, some PO cut it to about 23″ — I intend to cut it to 20″ and eventually put the bayonet/heatshield on it. This will be for practical use in my RV, as will be the Model 12 I’m looking for an extra barrel for.
I took it down to clean, then in reassembling it, the mag tube wouldn’t rotate if pushed all the way in. I was able to reassemble, but there is a tiny gap between the receiver and the end of the mag tube. Is this normal, or am I getting it wrong?
Looking at the wear on the barrel, it looks like the ears on the front end of the mag have worn through the bluing about 1/16 of an inch behind where they are now — not a full thread’s worth of spacing.
April 15, 2005
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The serial number will tell me precisely when it was manufactured. The MOD choke suggests that it originally had a 28-inch barrel.
If the Take Down was tight before you disassembled it, but now has a gap, you did something wrong when you reassembled it.
Pictures of the gun and all of the factory markings on the barrel, slide bar, and receiver frame would be beneficial in evaluating the gun.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 31, 2026
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S/N 7218xx.
The takedown itself looks normal, it is only the mag tube that may be an issue. Is the back end of the tube itself supposed to be tight against the receiver, or is that small gap normal?
To be more clear, when reassembling, I pushed the mag tube all the way to the bottom, but it would not turn to engage the lugs — I can feel it hitting the end of the lugs. Pulling the tube out a bit they engage fine, with a final gap (seen through the loading port) of about 1/16″ or so.
April 15, 2005
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MotorCDR said
S/N 7218xx.
The takedown itself looks normal, it is only the mag tube that may be an issue. Is the back end of the tube itself supposed to be tight against the receiver, or is that small gap normal?
To be more clear, when reassembling, I pushed the mag tube all the way to the bottom, but it would not turn to engage the lugs — I can feel it hitting the end of the lugs. Pulling the tube out a bit they engage fine, with a final gap (seen through the loading port) of about 1/16″ or so.
The serial number indicates that it was a March 1920 production gun.
The magazine tube should not be pushed tightly to the bottom of the receiver frame when rotating it back into its final assembled position.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 31, 2026
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Cool, I figured that it was supposed to have a little room, but wasn’t sure.
For being 106 years old, it’s in good shape. I’m looking forward to getting out to shoot it, then it will go in my classic 1973 GMC Motorhome as a coach gun.
Am I correct in believing that the 20″ bbl was measured from the breech block to muzzle?
April 15, 2005
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MotorCDR said
Am I correct in believing that the 20″ bbl was measured from the breech block to muzzle?
Yes. The correct measurement is from the bolt face to the muzzle face. Close the action fully and then insert a rod or dowel down the bore until it bottoms out on the bolt face, mark at the muzzle face and measure.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 31, 2026
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Okay, before I do any cutting, is the bbl length supposed to be an EXACT 20″ from breech face to muzzle? Sometimes manufacturers fudge the numbers a little for convenience, such as a revolver with 2-1/4 inch bbl length being commonly called a “2-inch” . . .
January 27, 1992
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I am curious, weren’t the 1897 Trench Guns all solid frame guns? I thought with the ‘heat sheild’ in place the magazine tube couldn’t be rotated? RDB
April 15, 2005
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rogertherelic said
I am curious, weren’t the 1897 Trench Guns all solid frame guns? I thought with the ‘heat sheild’ in place the magazine tube couldn’t be rotated? RDB
Roger,
All of the WW I Model 1897 Trench Guns were the Solid frame variation. The WW II Model 97 Trench Guns were all Take Downs.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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MotorCDR said
Okay, before I do any cutting, is the bbl length supposed to be an EXACT 20″ from breech face to muzzle? Sometimes manufacturers fudge the numbers a little for convenience, such as a revolver with 2-1/4 inch bbl length being commonly called a “2-inch” . . .
The Solid frame guns were 20″. The later Take Down guns were usually 20.5″.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 31, 2026
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So, they accounted for the additional length of the takedown. That’s what I needed to know, thanks.
October 14, 2025
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This is very interesting. I am also going too put together a trench gun. I have a non matching take down frankin gun. Before you laugh at my 97 consider this, it was free. Receiver dates around 1906. Barreled half is definitely later by 10 plus years ? I’ll have to check the numbers for sure. I could just cut it. Or I also have anther complete receiver around 1907-1910. I’ll have to check date. Stock, 2 pump stocks, extra bolt, 3 or 4 hammers and maybe a slide rail. It might be fun to try and complete it as a trench gun. Is it possible and safe it fire a non matching take down 97. The one i have together seems to function good, I have not tried to cycle shells through it.
April 15, 2005
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EWMN said
Is it possible and safe it fire a non matching take down 97. The one i have together seems to function good, I have not tried to cycle shells through it.
Just as long as the barrel assembly fits up tight to the receiver frame, Yes it is safe to shoot it. There are many hundreds of Model 1897 shotguns out there with mismatched barrel assemblies.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 31, 2026
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Bert H. said
There are many hundreds of Model 1897 shotguns out there with mismatched barrel assemblies.
The nice thing about a shotgun is that the close tolerances are in the assemblies — pretty much ANY working action and any working barrel/pump of the proper model and gauge work together just fine. This was one of John Browning’s major goals in designing things, and modern production machine tools and techniques made it possible.
October 14, 2025
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Thank you sir for verifying it is safe too shoot a mismatched 1897 takedown if everything locks up correctly. I have worked the action and dry fired and all seemed fine. When i get a chance I’ll try to cycle some shells through it and see how that goes.I tried to post a picture of my complete non matching 1897 but for some reason it is saying there’s a (http error. upload URL might be wrong or doesn’t exist.) I’ll try again later. Thanks again for taking the time to pass your knowledge along.
April 15, 2005
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EWMN said
Thank you sir for verifying it is safe too shoot a mismatched 1897 takedown if everything locks up correctly. I have worked the action and dry fired and all seemed fine. When i get a chance I’ll try to cycle some shells through it and see how that goes.I tried to post a picture of my complete non matching 1897 but for some reason it is saying there’s a (http error. upload URL might be wrong or doesn’t exist.) I’ll try again later. Thanks again for taking the time to pass your knowledge along.
Verify that your pictures are .jpg files, not .heic files.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
October 14, 2025
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7th
October 14, 2025
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spare receiver, some parts not all parts are for a 97. I just need a barrel assembly that has a good fit. It would be awesome to have a working tribute, clone, replica or whatever you want to call it ww 1 era trench gun.
October 14, 2025
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Mr. Bert H.. I read your article on the 1897 last night. If only I seen it a week ago, I would have known it was safe too fire a non matching shotgun. I really enjoyed the part about training for arieal warfare with the model 1897 in ww 1. I was aware that model 1910s were used in planes early on by the allies. Probably mostly shooting down surveillance balloons. I just thought by 1918 all arieal warfare was fought with mounted machine guns timed too fire through the propellers. I believe the Germans were first to figure it out. That being said, i could see a 12 ga. In a two seater with the passenger covering their 6 with a 1897. Or as usual, im missing something. Thank you for your time and effort on a great read on the history of the Winchester model 1897.
this was a interesting article.
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