Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Military Model 37???
December 20, 2019
2:28 am
Avatar
Michigan
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 51
Member Since:
November 2, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

At a gun show this past weekend in mid-Michigan, we spotted a Model 37 marked US Property on the side of the butt stock. 30" full choke barrel. The only other non-standard marking on the gun was the number 34 stamped in the bottom of the frame near the forearm. I'm more into the repeater's skeet and trap, so I'm asking the experts! Thanks in advance. Sorry, no photo's.

Chris.

December 20, 2019
4:36 am
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 10344
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Chris,

Back in the day, military bases purchased common firearms that could be checked and used for short periods of time by active duty military members for target shooting or hunting trips, trap & skeet events, etc. That practice was rapidly phased out in the early 1970s at most military bases/installations. I suspect that the Model 37 you saw was one of them sold off to the general market in the 1970s.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

December 20, 2019
4:25 pm
Avatar
Charleston, SC
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 585
Member Since:
November 5, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Chris and Bert-

While I certainly cannot speak to the origins of the subject M37, I'm sure you know that at the outset of WWII the US Government bought many commercial firearms from Winchester, including M97s, M12s, M37s, M24s, M70s, etc.  Presumably these were intended for Stateside use in some capacity or other.

If anyone is interested, the records of Winchester Quotations and Orders from 1942 through 1945 (four volumes) exist in the McCrackin Library archives and have been digitally scanned and loaded on-line such that they can be downloaded at no cost.  These hand-written bound ledgers are each 200+ pages and record the prices and quantities Winchester quoted in response to purchase inquiries.  Everything is there, from flashlight bulbs, to lubricants, guns, and ammunition components.  Below each quotation, in red pencil, is recorded whether/when the order was placed.

For example, below is a clipping of part of a page from the 1942 volume:

Quotations-and-Orders-callout-1942.pngImage Enlarger

At the bottom is a price quote made on May 12, 1942 to the US War Department HOD for 2090 M37s (at $6.68 ea) and 1700 M24s (at $22.04 ea).  G3701S, G3702S, and G3703S are the catalog symbols for 12 gauge M37s with 32", 30" and 28" full choke barrels, respectively.  Beneath that in red is recorded that Winchester received the order on July 8, 1942 and the corresponding Federal Ordnance Contract number. While this ledger does not document whether Winchester actually filled the order (only that it was placed) or give any help in documenting whether an individual gun was part of such an order, it does suggest that "US Property" marked M37 shotguns would be by no means rare if they survived their time in the service.  

I've found these ledgers particularly interesting with regard to the UMSC and HOD orders for M70s.  The numbers ordered might be surprising to some!!!  As would things like the the second quote down on the page to HOD on May 8, 1942 for six G7067C.  G7067Cs are 375 H&H Magnum Model 70 Super Grades with Lyman 48WJS receiver sights!!!  Apparently somebody wanted them bad as the order was received the next day!!!  What's up with that???  Some Pentagon Generals planning a safari???

What I've not yet figured out is whether there is a way to look-up the ORD Contract by number to see if they document if/when the orders were fulfilled.  Anybody know of an accessible digital archive on the US Government side where such documents might be hiding?

Best,

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

December 21, 2019
3:46 am
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 10344
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Lou,

Do you have the URL address to the download location on the McCrackin Library?

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

December 21, 2019
5:09 am
Avatar
Charleston, SC
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 585
Member Since:
November 5, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Bert-

Give me until tomorrow and I'll look up the URLs...  They're kind of buried in the library files...  Oh the joys of historical research!!! 

If I find them I'll post the links here...  If for some reason I fail (shouldn't happen), I did download the full document scans (way too big to post w/o overwhelming this site) and I can move the files to Dropbox and give you the link.  There's some really cool stuff there that I think you'd find more interesting than I did (if you've not flipped through them before)...

I'd like to get your take on them... 

Best,

Lou

P.S.  For any guests viewing this post and who don't know what we're referring to, the McCrackin library is the research library of the Cody Firearms Museum.  Most "regulars" around here know that but I forgot to explain earlier.  Sorry...  Yell

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

December 21, 2019
4:13 pm
Avatar
Charleston, SC
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 585
Member Since:
November 5, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Bert-

The files are in ARCHON digital archive MS 020:

McCrackin-Library-folders.pngImage Enlarger

Try the URLs below:

1942

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4712/rec/2

1943

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4728/rec/2

1944

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4703/rec/2

1945

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4727/rec/2

Each should take you to a page where you can "download" the full document.  I found them easier to download and view than to scroll through them on-line. Let me know if these links work and also how you interpret the hand written records of transactions.

Best,

Lou

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

December 21, 2019
10:34 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1834
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

cberghuis said
At a gun show this past weekend in mid-Michigan, we spotted a Model 37 marked US Property on the side of the butt stock. 30" full choke barrel. The only other non-standard marking on the gun was the number 34 stamped in the bottom of the frame near the forearm. I'm more into the repeater's skeet and trap, so I'm asking the experts! Thanks in advance. Sorry, no photo's.

Chris.  

Somewhere I have some info on the non Winchester manufactured US shotguns.  The military did buy guns for practice and guard duty. I can't remember where my information is. 

December 21, 2019
11:21 pm
Avatar
Tom Doniphon
Guests

The Government purchased a few thousand Model 37 shotguns during the early part of WWII.   Most were in 12 gauge, but some in 16.  Over 1,000 went to the Rubber Reserve Corporation which was an entity tasked with acquiring rubber (a critical wartime material) from both overseas and domestically.

December 22, 2019
6:51 am
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 10344
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Louis Luttrell said
Hi Bert-

The files are in ARCHON digital archive MS 020:

McCrackin-Library-folders.pngImage Enlarger

Try the URLs below:

1942

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4712/rec/2

1943

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4728/rec/2

1944

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4703/rec/2

1945

http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p17097coll30/id/4727/rec/2

Each should take you to a page where you can "download" the full document.  I found them easier to download and view than to scroll through them on-line. Let me know if these links work and also how you interpret the hand written records of transactions.

Best,

Lou  

Thanks Lou... I have them all downloaded, now I just need the time to review everything in them.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: TR
43 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 7630

Posts: 63638


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1040

Members: 9544

Moderators: 5

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 4441

twobit: 2578

TXGunNut: 2499

clarence: 1933

Chuck: 1834

Maverick: 1620

Big Larry: 1445

JWA: 1356

steve004: 1217

Wincacher: 1185