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April 19, 2017
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How can you determine if someone has taken a plain or really any long barrel model 1897 and cut the barrel down to 20” to make a fake riot or trench version? Is there any other ways to determine if a riot or trench version is fake? Can you determine by the s/n alone?
Thanks,
Phil
April 15, 2005
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Phil,
The first thing I check is the serial number, and the frame type (WW I Riot and Trench Guns were all solid frame guns… no Take Downs). The next thing I look for is the choke marking stamped on the barrel. Most of the long barreled guns had a “FULL” or a “MOD” choke. All original 20-inch barrels were “CYL”. The next item to inspect is the placement of the front bead sight. If a standard gun has been converted to a Trench gun, remove the heat shield and inspect the three grooves on the bottom of the barrel. If they are raw (in the white), and not cleanly milled, they were added after the fact.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 19, 2017
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Thanks Bert.
Here are some barrel and site pictures of a solid frame 1897 manufactured in 1914 that is supposed to be a riot gun. From the bolt to end of barrel measures 20 1/8”. From end of barrel to the center of the site bead measures 3/16”. The barrel is marked CYL.
Phil
April 15, 2005
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Phil said
Thanks Bert.Here are some barrel and site pictures of a solid frame 1897 manufactured in 1914 that is supposed to be a riot gun. From the bolt to end of barrel measures 20 1/8”. From end of barrel to the center of the site bead measures 3/16”. The barrel is marked CYL.
Phil
Phil,
The barrel has been cut down from a longer length. Winchester installed the front bead exactly .500″ from the muzzle to the center of the bead. The pictures you posted clearly show that “Bubba” botched it on his first attempt.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 19, 2017
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Thanks Bert, that is what I expected.
It amazes me how people butcher such fine works of art, I will keep looking for the right one.
As to the front site bead should you see a brass post inside the barrel? What should the actual bolt to end of barrel measure?
Thanks,
Phil
April 15, 2005
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Phil,
I have found authentic Riot & Trench guns with barrels as long as 21-inches. That stated, the accepted length is 20-inches. The front bead shank is visible on an original, but it is exactly .50″ inch from the muzzle face.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
