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January 20, 2023
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I’ve just been gifted a nice Model 37 16 gauge with a “choke” barrel and no apparent serial number. Ill post pix soon but not tonight or Saturday.
In the interim are there any particular physical characteristics that might let me ballpark the date range?
Roll marks include the expression “Steel Bilt” and the barrel and frame bear Winchester proof marks. The frame is blued, not case colored and the hammer is (or was) bright steel. Stock and forearm are dark straight grain Walnut and a deteriorated pad is on the butt.
An owner has thoughtfully added his Texas DL in 4 point scratching on the barrel. Mercifully unobtrusive. The trigger guard is bent steel, blued.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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A couple of images.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
April 15, 2005
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Bill,
I suggest taking the forend stock off and checking the bottom of the barrel for a 2-digit year number.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 20, 2023
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Bert H. said
Bill,
I suggest taking the forend stock off and checking the bottom of the barrel for a 2-digit year number.
Bert
Thanks, will do.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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An update. There is no date or date code anywhere on the barrel.
My friend who.gave me this Model 37 (because he is moving to an assisted living facility) believes his father bought the gun shortly after the close of WWII, before he could afford to buy the pump shotgun he used for the rest of his hunting days.
If he bought it used, it may be older than 1946 or 1947, although it is a 90% gun except for a flattened and distorted recoil pad of unreadable make, badly installed on the un-squared off wooden butt.
If anyone collects the Model 37, perhaps the “Steel Bilt” rollmark will ring a bell. Also the “Choke” rollmark, although I’d bet a donut that meant Full Choke since these guns were supposed to “shoot hard.”
It won’t be economic to do so, but I’m going to take it to Ron Gervase and have him install a solid red Sorbothane pad on it. The rest of this little 16 gauge is too nice not to do so and it would make a good teaching gun for somebody down the line.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Interesting little gun, Bill. Have always admired the simplicity and durability of these old guns. Reminds me of the old hardware store shotgun my grandfather had, mainly because that shotgun was rather poorly made by comparison. Also reminds me of a time when people bought what they could afford. I doubt a tastefully installed new recoil pad would have a negative effect on collector value and I can’t be certain finding the correct butt plate would help it much. The double-edged sword of what I call the “Fun Zone” of collectable Winchesters is that they don’t cost much; aren’t worth much. Good news is they’re always well made and a generally a good value if taken care of by previous custodians.
Mike
October 14, 2024
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That’s a nice little shotgun. Single barrels are fun to take out into the field. They’re so stinking light and fun to shoot.
January 20, 2023
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I haven’t looked it up in my 1956 Gun Digest for more than a half Century but I recall the Winchester 37 was noticeably more expensive than other single barrel break-open shotguns of that day. It was also just a bit sleeker than the rest and had a real Walnut stock.
Even though this is a 16 gauge, it is light enough to bite harder than a kid should have to endure. I’ve never regretted installing a good Pachmayr Decelerator on my son’s Light Twenty before presenting it to him and it has been a great shooter over the Decades. He prefers a Winchester 59 Versachoke 12 gauge these days but the Browning is in his locker for his own sons.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
Online
Zebulon said
I haven’t looked it up in my 1956 Gun Digest for more than a half Century but I recall the Winchester 37 was noticeably more expensive than other single barrel break-open shotguns of that day. It was also just a bit sleeker than the rest and had a real Walnut stock.
Even though this is a 16 gauge, it is light enough to bite harder than a kid should have to endure. I’ve never regretted installing a good Pachmayr Decelerator on my son’s Light Twenty before presenting it to him and it has been a great shooter over the Decades. He prefers a Winchester 59 Versachoke 12 gauge these days but the Browning is in his locker for his own sons.
I think a recoil pad has the added benefit of helping to ensure a more consistent mount and sometimes aids in adjusting the LOP. It’s a shame they aren’t very durable.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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The older pads were not as resilient. Modern chemistry has improved the newer ones dramatically. It still helps to rest all of them on a padded surface but my 1950 Model 70 Super Grade’s factory pad and the Pachmayr Whiteline pad on my FN Browning High Power (neither of them flyweights) have never distorted.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
December 12, 2019
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Bill, I can’t help you determine a DOM directly for your M37, but I can pass along some of what I learned while attempting to do the same some years ago:
Many years ago, I decided to try and collect an example of every firearm Winchester manufactured during by birth year (1948). The model 37 was one of many with no serial numbers. Research I did at the time allowed me to narrow down the DOM to a few years, but I could never be absolutely certain of a particular year.
As I recall, (this is from memory, and may not be completely accurate) the shape of the fore end, the shape of the action release lever and tang, and the lettering were all in play. I honestly can’t recall if the nature of the butt plate/recoil pad was of any help. And I seem to recall that the ‘Steel Built’ stamping was red for a few years.
I know this doesn’t help, but maybe you can research some of the same, subtle features and arrive at a time range.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
November 7, 2015
Online
Zebulon said
I haven’t looked it up in my 1956 Gun Digest for more than a half Century but I recall the Winchester 37 was noticeably more expensive than other single barrel break-open shotguns of that day. It was also just a bit sleeker than the rest and had a real Walnut stock.
Even though this is a 16 gauge, it is light enough to bite harder than a kid should have to endure. I’ve never regretted installing a good Pachmayr Decelerator on my son’s Light Twenty before presenting it to him and it has been a great shooter over the Decades. He prefers a Winchester 59 Versachoke 12 gauge these days but the Browning is in his locker for his own sons.
I think a recoil pad has the added benefit of helping to ensure a more consistent mount and sometimes aids in adjusting the LOP. It’s a shame they aren’t very durable.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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Materials chemistry has improved since the original Winchester pads were molded. Even so, the one on my 1950 Model 70 has not distorted. It helps to cushion the pad with something soft and the Bore-Store end flap serves this purpose.
Likewise, the thin, brown, solid Pachmayr pad a prior owner installed on my 1960 Model 52C Sporting Rifle, to replace the cheap-looking plastic buttplate with which it left the factory, has borne the weight of that hefty rifle for many years without ballooning.
I think the older “ventilated” pads are softer and more prone to go out of shape.
The recent solid Pachmayr pads are about as resilient as you could want. I can tolerate a day’s shooting with a fixed breech 20 gauge equipped with a hard buttplate, except for three inch magnum loads, which I never use. In a 12 gauge, I prefer a pad, even with the one-ounce loads that pattern so well.
One of the not-insignificant benefits of a nice recoil pad on a 12 gauge Model 21 Skeet Gun, instead of the factory standard checkered wooden butt, is it knocks the price down to the point I could strain and get one and actually use it!
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
April 15, 2005
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Zebulon said
I can tolerate a day’s shooting with a fixed breech 20 gauge equipped with a hard butt plate, except for three inch magnum loads, which I never use. In a 12 gauge, I prefer a pad, even with the one-ounce loads that pattern so well.
You apparently have not ever tried to shoot an original Single Shot high-wall 20-ga shotgun… I challenge you to shoot even a half box of standard 2.75″ No. 4, 5, or 6 shot shells through it. The high-wall shotguns as manufactured by Winchester weighed just 5.5 lbs. I stopped shooting mine after just (6) shells and have not tried to shoot it again since (I purchased it at the January 2001 Las Vegas Antique Arms show, and then took it out shooting in the Spring of 2001).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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Bert H. said
Zebulon said
I can tolerate a day’s shooting with a fixed breech 20 gauge equipped with a hard butt plate, except for three inch magnum loads, which I never use. In a 12 gauge, I prefer a pad, even with the one-ounce loads that pattern so well.
You apparently have not ever tried to shoot an original Single Shot high-wall 20-ga shotgun… I challenge you to shoot even a half box of standard 2.75″ No. 4, 5, or 6 shot shells through it. The high-wall shotguns as manufactured by Winchester weighed just 5.5 lbs. I stopped shooting mine after just (6) shells and have not tried to shoot it again since (I purchased it at the January 2001 Las Vegas Antique Arms show, and then took it out shooting in the Spring of 2001).
Bert
I sold my 20 ga. hunting shotgun but I still have some ammo. I’ve never shot my 85 20 ga. Might be a good time to do so.
April 15, 2005
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Chuck said
Bert H. said
Zebulon said
I can tolerate a day’s shooting with a fixed breech 20 gauge equipped with a hard butt plate, except for three inch magnum loads, which I never use. In a 12 gauge, I prefer a pad, even with the one-ounce loads that pattern so well.
You apparently have not ever tried to shoot an original Single Shot high-wall 20-ga shotgun… I challenge you to shoot even a half box of standard 2.75″ No. 4, 5, or 6 shot shells through it. The high-wall shotguns as manufactured by Winchester weighed just 5.5 lbs. I stopped shooting mine after just (6) shells and have not tried to shoot it again since (I purchased it at the January 2001 Las Vegas Antique Arms show, and then took it out shooting in the Spring of 2001).
Bert
I sold my 20 ga. hunting shotgun but I still have some ammo. I’ve never shot my 85 20 ga. Might be a good time to do so.
Wear your mouth guard.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 20, 2023
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Well, what I had in mind was my first shotgun, a 1966, 20 gauge field grade Remington Model 870, with which i hunted doves. Then, much later, I got a 20 gauge Browning BSS double i wish I’d never sold. After that, a Browning Model 12 20 gauge in “Skeet gun” style and finally a Superposed Lightning 20 gauge.
None of the foregoing had or have recoil pads but all of them have a couple of things in common: they are steel framed middleweights. They have modern stocks with only modest drop.
Lightweight guns with old crooked stocks are miserable to shoot, pad or no pad, like stepping into the ring and taking a couple straight to the jaw from a boxer just testing his reach.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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Nevada Paul said
Bill, I can’t help you determine a DOM directly for your M37, but I can pass along some of what I learned while attempting to do the same some years ago:
Many years ago, I decided to try and collect an example of every firearm Winchester manufactured during by birth year (1948). The model 37 was one of many with no serial numbers. Research I did at the time allowed me to narrow down the DOM to a few years, but I could never be absolutely certain of a particular year.
As I recall, (this is from memory, and may not be completely accurate) the shape of the fore end, the shape of the action release lever and tang, and the lettering were all in play. I honestly can’t recall if the nature of the butt plate/recoil pad was of any help. And I seem to recall that the ‘Steel Built’ stamping was red for a few years.
I know this doesn’t help, but maybe you can research some of the same, subtle features and arrive at a time range.
Paul
Paul, I just saw your post. Thanks for the information. I have all the Gun Digests – certainly all of them edited by John Amber, which were the most useful. I will browse the pictures and see if there are visible clues.
Bill
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
December 12, 2019
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Zebulon said
Nevada Paul said
Bill, I can’t help you determine a DOM directly for your M37, but I can pass along some of what I learned while attempting to do the same some years ago:
Many years ago, I decided to try and collect an example of every firearm Winchester manufactured during by birth year (1948). The model 37 was one of many with no serial numbers. Research I did at the time allowed me to narrow down the DOM to a few years, but I could never be absolutely certain of a particular year.
As I recall, (this is from memory, and may not be completely accurate) the shape of the fore end, the shape of the action release lever and tang, and the lettering were all in play. I honestly can’t recall if the nature of the butt plate/recoil pad was of any help. And I seem to recall that the ‘Steel Built’ stamping was red for a few years.
I know this doesn’t help, but maybe you can research some of the same, subtle features and arrive at a time range.
Paul
Paul, I just saw your post. Thanks for the information. I have all the Gun Digests – certainly all of them edited by John Amber, which were the most useful. I will browse the pictures and see if there are visible clues.
Bill
Found this with a quick Google search:
- Presence of red letters: Indicates production between 1936 and 1948.
- No red letters (“Blue Belly”): Indicates production between 1948 and 1963.
- “Pigtail” lever present: Indicates production in 1937 or 1938.
- Solid steel lever: Indicates production after 1938.
- Buttplate logo: Early models featured a round Winchester logo, while later models had the name spelled vertically.
- Hammer style: The hammer design was modified at least four times over the course of production.
In addition to the above, my recollection is that there were some changes in the shape of the forearm, finger grooves, wide vs narrow, etc., but I can’t confirm this or find a reference.
Hope this helps. Let me know what you determine. FWIW, I ended up with 3 different model 37’s while trying to ensure I had one from 1948. None of mine had the 2 digit stamp referenced by Bert.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
January 20, 2023
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Paul, all that information helps a great deal. On close examination:
1. No trace of red paint.
2.. lever appears to be of conventional shape and made of solid steel. There is a checkering pattern impressed or molded into the sides of the tab.
The buttplate is missing and a deteriorated red pad with horizontal ventilations was on the still-radiused buttstock. I removed it in pieces and observe the stock is American black Walnut, not birch.
The forearm is full and ovular, almost a semi-beavertail, and without finger grooves.
Based on your helpful.information, I think we can conclude it was made post-WWII, from 1948 forward. That comports with the donor’s recollection of his father using it to hunt ducks along the Brazos in the late Forties or very early Fifties. My friend would have been 8 to 10 years old then.
His dad “engraved” his driver’s license number on the barrel “to keep it from being stolen.” I’m a couple of years younger but can still remember law enforcement agencies urging gun owners to do this. Twenty years ago I bought an almost unused, grooved receiver Model.61 “hammerless” still with a checkered steel buttplate, that a pilgrim had spoiled by scratching his license number through mint Dulite into the steel of the left receiver wall.
I got a star in my Restorer’s crown by taking this Model 61 to one of our more meticulous local custom gunmakers, who kept it for 4 months, disassembled the entire rifle, flat stoned the receiver to remove the scratches and reblued the receiver to match the rest of the gun, leaving the marks intact and applying red enamel of the exact shade to the safety button groove. It takes a Model 61 guru of truly heightened awareness to detect the re-blue.
The gun itself set me back 400 2007 dollars and the work was another 400, which at the time would buy a nice unmarred Model.61, although maybe not a grooved receiver specimen. But this one is a squirrel shooter’s dream, sufficiently accurate, now wearing a Leupold Compact 4X from the late Eighties in “tip off” rings, and would be one of the last pieces I’d sell.
I look at this sort of uneconomic project – to include a quality recoil pad for this nice 16.gauge – as a small contribution to the memory of an historic company and perhaps the pleasure of another young hunter of the future. I never consider the money wasted, if the result is worthy of the brand.
.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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