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I have a 1919 Model 1897 and was looking to buy another one because I like it so much. Today, I found one marked “97” that dates to 1920. Does that sound right for the time period when they stopped marking them as 1897’s and started using 97? The gun seemed original to me with matching serial numbers on the barrel and receiver. I want to make sure the slide bar hasn’t been replaced before I purchase it. Thanks
About 1919 Winchester dropped the 18 off the model designation. This is true for most, if not all ,of the models. So your gun is correct. In 1919 you could get either.
Cliff,
In the early part of the year 1919, Winchester Plant Manager Frank F. Burton issued a Change of Manufacture Notice to shorten all model designations in production from 4-digits to 2-digits. The Engraving shop then was tasked with making (or modifying) all of the roll die stamps to comply with that notice. For some models, the change was made rather quickly, but for others it took nearly a full year to fully make the change. Due to some models having a substantial number of already made & marked parts on hand, the newly marked items (barrels, slide bars, receivers, etc.) did not begin to appear until late in the year 1919, or in several cases, early 1920.
The Model 1897/97 transition took longer than any other model to complete (reason unknown), and it has the longest span of serial numbers where the transition took place. I have been surveying the Model 1897/97 for a very long time now, and I have a considerable database on them, which includes the observed serial number ranges for the various changes.
The first Model “97” marked shotgun I have found dates to mid October 1919. Just prior to the change, Winchester was using what I refer to as the “Type-5” slide bar marking with the upper line marked “MODEL 1897”. The new “Type-6” slide bar marking was created by simply removing the “18” from the Type-5 roll die “MODEL 97”, and it was used through November 1920, when it was replaced by the “Type-7” roll die “MODEL 97”. For most of the year 1920, there were a lot of guns made that still had a Type-5 slide bar marking on them. See the pictures below showing the Type 5, 6, & 7 slide bar markings.
I would like to add your Model 1897/97 shotguns to my survey.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks guys! If the gun is still for sale when I get back home Tuesday , I’ll buy it . Bert, I’ll forward the serial numbers of both guns to you next week.
Bert H. said
Cliff,In the early part of the year 1919, Winchester Plant Manager Frank F. Burton issued a Change of Manufacture Notice to shorten all model designations in production from 4-digits to 2-digits. The Engraving shop then was tasked with making (or modifying) all of the roll die stamps to comply with that notice. For some models, the change was made rather quickly, but for others it took nearly a full year to fully make the change. Due to some models having a substantial number of already made & marked parts on hand, the newly marked items (barrels, slide bars, receivers, etc.) did not begin to appear until late in the year 1919, or in several cases, early 1920.
The Model 1897/97 transition took longer than any other model to complete (reason unknown), and it has the longest span of serial numbers where the transition took place. I have been surveying the Model 1897/97 for a very long time now, and I have a considerable database on them, which includes the observed serial number ranges for the various changes.
The first Model “97” marked shotgun I have found dates to mid October 1919. Just prior to the change, Winchester was using what I refer to as the “Type-5” slide bar marking with the upper line marked “MODEL 1897”. The new “Type-6” slide bar marking was created by simply removing the “18” from the Type-5 roll die “MODEL 97”, and it was used through November 1920, when it was replaced by the “Type-7” roll die “MODEL 97”. For most of the year 1920, there were a lot of guns made that still had a Type-5 slide bar marking on them. See the pictures below showing the Type 5, 6, & 7 slide bar markings.
I would like to add your Model 1897/97 shotguns to my survey.
Bert
Hey Bert. I ended up talking the seller into keeping his 97 so, I missed out on it but, the serial number of my 1919 model is 712808 and it is a takedown, 30″ barrel with modified choke. Thanks, Cliff
Cliff said
Hey Bert. I ended up talking the seller into keeping his 97 so, I missed out on it but, the serial number of my 1919 model is 712808 and it is a takedown, 30″ barrel with modified choke. Thanks, Cliff
Cliff,
Your Model 1897 was serialized in December of 1919. It is very near the end of the “1897” Type-5 slide bar marking use. What was the serial number on the one you passed up?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Cliff,
Your Model 1897 was serialized in December of 1919. It is very near the end of the “1897” Type-5 slide bar marking use. What was the serial number on the one you passed up?
Bert
Bert, Im sorry I didnt write the number down on the one I passed on but it was made in 1938.
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