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1897 Barrel markings
December 24, 2020
1:50 am
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AH
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Hello, Im looking at an 1897 series E that has a cut down MOD barrel on it.  Serial #’s match and puts it at 1910.

Did all 1897 barrels have the “Model 97 Winchester, etc” with patent info on the left side of the barrel?  I am looking at pics of it and dont see this info on the left side of the barrel near the MOD stamp.  However, it does appear to have the top proof mark on the barrel though.

December 24, 2020
3:44 am
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Kingston, WA
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AH,

Winchester did not put the “Model 97” marking on the barrel until the mid 1920s. Prior to that, it was marked on the left side of the gun on the slide bar assembly. A 1910 production Model 1897 should have the Type-4 style slide bar marking (there were seven total types used).  The picture I have attached is the Type-4 (on S/N 550084, manufactured February 1912).

Bert

Type-4-550841-E-series.jpgImage Enlarger

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December 24, 2020
3:53 am
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AH
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Ok, thanks that is exactly what I see. It has a replacement buttstock, but i would like to find an original stock.  I have done some looking around but all seem to be repro stocks.  Is there a site that is known for original stocks?  Also, is the rounded (maybe called Prince of Wales) stock the correct one to look for?

December 24, 2020
5:33 am
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Kingston, WA
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Original stocks for a 1910 production Model 1897 are very scarce, but they do occasionally show up for sale on ebay (when somebody parts out a tired old gun).

I believe you are asking about a “round knob” pistol grip stock, and No, it is not the correct butt stock.  A 1910 vintage gun will have the early style semi-pistol grip stock (see the attached picture below).

What is the serial number on the gun you are looking at?

 

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December 24, 2020
5:39 am
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AH
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Looks like serial 4401xx, so 1909 maybe.

December 24, 2020
5:59 am
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Kingston, WA
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AH said
Looks like serial 4401xx, so 1909 maybe.  

Positively 1909, in fact, late January 1909.

The semi-pistol grip butt stocks were introduced in January 1907 and were the same through the early 1930s.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

December 24, 2020
4:20 pm
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AH
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Thank you for the great info, I love the history behind these guns. In fact, knowing the history of what you are using is half the fun for me! 

One other question.  I previously had an 1897 that had a flat bottomed buttstock (very close to the two stocks in your sig), but cant remember what year it was…  Do you happen to know when those were used?

December 24, 2020
5:05 pm
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Kingston, WA
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AH said

One other question.  I previously had an 1897 that had a flat bottomed buttstock (very close to the two stocks in your sig), but cant remember what year it was…  Do you happen to know when those were used?  

As I mentioned in a previous reply, Winchester first began using the semi-pistol grip (flat bottom) butt stocks in January 1907.  Winchester began using the flat bottomed slide handle stocks on the Model 97 guns in 1947.

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December 24, 2020
5:08 pm
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AH
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My apologies I missed that!  Have a great Christmas!

December 29, 2020
2:20 pm
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AH
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Out of curiosity, what do you make of an 1897 with a 20″ barrel, that is stamped with both CYL and FULL?  There is a gunbroker auction for a riot gun that is marked with both.  Seller shows a doc from Cody Firearms Museum showing that the gun came from the factory in a riot configuration with a 20″ barrel, but the doc doesn’t show that it came with a “cyl bore / full choke”.

December 29, 2020
6:33 pm
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Kingston, WA
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AH said
Out of curiosity, what do you make of an 1897 with a 20″ barrel, that is stamped with both CYL and FULL?  There is a gunbroker auction for a riot gun that is marked with both.  Seller shows a doc from Cody Firearms Museum showing that the gun came from the factory in a riot configuration with a 20″ barrel, but the doc doesn’t show that it came with a “cyl bore / full choke”.  

Sometime in mid year 1900, Winchester must have received a large order for Riot Guns, and to fill it expeditiously, they took a large quantity of standard Field grade guns out of warehouse stock and cut them all down to 20-inch barrels.  They then hand stamped the barrels “CYL” just below the original “FULL” marking.  Thus far, I have found (21) of them, all in the 93434 – 101015 serial number range (PR dates February 1900 – June 1900).  The CFM document may not mention the choke.

Bert

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December 29, 2020
8:04 pm
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AH
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Very cool info thank you.

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