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Old rifle, new ammo, help!
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April 7, 2015 - 4:10 am
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Hello All,

I Own A 1907 Oct Bbl 30wcf Rifle. After Purchasing Online, I Found The Front Sight Had Been Filed Down. Gun Shot 10″ High @ 100Yds With Factory 150Gr. Bought .412″ Tall Front Blade Sight Now Shoots 6″ High @ 100. Any Hope I Can Get Closer With Period Sights Or Is Best Bet Handload And Slow Down? By The Way Flat Top Rear, Or I Have 3 Leaf Express Rear Sight. Your Input Is Valueable.

Thanks In Advance,

Scott 

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April 7, 2015 - 12:33 pm
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Scott Your rear sight is all the way down or at the lowest leaf?  You might have to use another taller front sight if you want to shoot modern factory 150 grain.  Maybe you could find factory 170s at a slower velocity.  Both are probably going to be loaded faster than factory 30WCF was in 1907.  Without a 1907 catalog here I’d have to guess they listed it at 1900-2000fps back then.

I hand load for 30WCF regularly.  Usually there is a large bullet selection and a lot of data out there.  I try to stay on the milder side at it can be very accurate.  Probably 1900-2000fps. depending on the load.  I’m sure you could find a load that gets you where you want to be…and you already have the brass!

Brad

 

Here is a front sight I use on my shooter 1907 OB 1894:

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Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

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April 7, 2015 - 6:51 pm
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Thanks Brad,

6″ At 100 Last Trip To Range Was With 50Yd Pin On Express Sight. Shoots 2″ High At 50. Ammo Was Barnes Vortex A Little Over 2300 From Factory 20″ Bbl. I Worked For Barnes In Their Ballistics Lab For 7 Years. Really Partial To Their 150Fn Tsx. I Know It Will Expand Double Diameter At @1200 Fps. don’t Have As Much Time To Reload Was Hoping Factory Would Work. Will Try Slowing Down When I Load.

Scott 

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April 7, 2015 - 9:10 pm
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Scott

That Barnes bullet sounds interesting, and 7 years in the ballistics lab…neat job!  I should probably be asking you questions.  Good luck with your loads.

Brad

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Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

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April 8, 2015 - 6:27 pm
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My repro copy of the 1896 Winchester Catalogue lists the ballistics of the 30 W.C.F. as 160 grains at 1,970 fps. I read somewhere, however, that that velocity measurement was taken at about 50 feet from the muzzle (w30wcf might be able to pitch in here to confirm or correct). With that in mind, I’m thinking the original 160 grains came out the muzzle at pretty close to 2,000 fps.

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April 8, 2015 - 9:50 pm
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If this would help any, the August 1895 catalog also lists the load of a 160 grain bullet at the 1970 fps mentioned.  By 1905 the catalog listing was 170 grains at 1960 fps.  I would not know how far from the muzzle they took the measurement either.  I have noticed slight changes in the data recorded in catalogs.  For example, Catalog 68 from Jan 1902 shows 30WCF with a 160 grain bullet at 1885fps.  w30wcf may have commented on that also.  Hopefully he comes along with some good info!

I was fortunate to go through some velocity and pressure results recorded at the New Haven Ballistics and Loading area in the very early 1900s while researching 32WS for an article.  There was also some information on 30WCF.  The information was recorded from their testing in 1903 of bullet weights of 160, 170 and 180 grains with various powders.  They also tested UMC brand.  They went over 2,000 fps a few times with the 12 samples of loads tested that I looked at.  For the most part they were consistently in the 1900-1999 fps range.  The extreme spreads of velocity recorded on some loads were also very low in my opinion.  I thought all of it was very neat considering the different powders and bullet weights used. 

I am going to ask to see some data from 1906-10 in the future for researching 30WCF and 25-35WCF.  I’ll ask if there is any information on their testing procedure or how far they recorded velocity from the muzzle also.  That would be nice to know since I am heavy on the results here and light on the methods.

I’ve also started working on loads for a 1906 1/2OB 1894 Sporting Rifle through which my goal is to shoot some period jacketed soft point bullets, one or two later jacketed bullets and some gas-checked cast bullets.  I’d like to get the bullets close in velocity to the original loads.  By looking at the test results from New Haven maybe I can come up with something comparable.  One of the previously mentioned members here has helped me out a lot getting started with that project.

I wish I could have gotten into a lot more of these details in the article on 32WS but there wasn’t room/time right then.  I’ll probably expand on some of it as I feel 32WS is a very noteworthy cartridge and the early 1900s period is of great interest to me.

Thanks,

Brad 

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Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

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April 10, 2015 - 2:46 am
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 Question For Brad. 

While Looking Through The Data What Bbl Length Was Used, 20 Or 26″? Thanks For All Your Replies Any Questions About Barnes Bullets  i’ll Be Glad To Answer.

Thanks 

Scott 

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April 10, 2015 - 3:00 am
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Scott

I don’t know that one either.  The pages I have looked at have some notations but I haven’t found a note to the length of barrel.  If they were somehow testing accuracy of the loads at the same time and/or wanted the highest velocity they could record would they have purposely used the 26″?

I was looking through some catalog info and need to do some more reading but Winchester did mention how they tested velocity in their catalog.  I need to do more reading on the subject however.

Brad

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Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

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April 10, 2015 - 4:49 am
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The standard barrel length at that time for the 30 WCF was 26-inches.  The ballistics would have been derived using a 26-inch barrel.

Bert

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April 10, 2015 - 11:10 am
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Here is some information from the 1903 Winchester catalog which refers to these two instruments for testing in the section of the catalog “Winchester Ammuniton/ How Velocity is Determined”, pg. 88.  Hopefully this is the same “Smith Tramway type” chronograph.

https://books.google.com/books?id=7-taAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=the+tram+chronograph&source=bl&ots=nOrcG3_iPq&sig=ogRgV1qwddke_PZj9Uo8ZJAf2_0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zqYnVemjG8jdsATh0oCoDQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false

Looks like this one is a little older:

https://books.google.com/books?id=t6VWAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA14&dq=Le+Boulange+Chronograph&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LKwnVcuUDanmsASsyYH4Bw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Brad

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Brad Dunbar

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