Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
38-55 cast bullet load suggestions
June 9, 2017
2:57 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3431
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loading for my CA 1905 1894 in 38-55 and can’t seem to come up with a load to take advantage of this rifle’s nice bore. Using a NOE 379279 (basically a long, fat 375449) that weighs about 285 grs. Also have a newish Lyman 380681 and a NOE 375449 clone. Haven’t tried the 375449 clone yet. I’ve had encouraging results with the 380681 and the 379279 using AA5744, IMR3031, IMR4198 and H4198. I’ve even had a bit of success with OE FFg. My favorite sources are several grains apart on smokeless powder loads for the 375449 and no one seems to be interested in the 285gr bullets for this cartridge. Beginning to wonder if the 379279 is too heavy or if I just haven’t hit the right combination yet. It shoots a pretty solid 4″ group @ 100 but frequently has a flier that is a bit annoying for a hunting rifle. 

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 9, 2017
1:08 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 332
Member Since:
September 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TxGunNut,

  I load a traditional Lyman 255 grain lead bullet with IMR 4198 powder, and sometimes RL 7, for use in my 1894’s.  I can not say for sure, but since 255 grains was the original weight, it may be you are a little “heavy” with the 285 grain bullet.  In the for what its worth category, I have had issues with the 255 grain, flat nose bullet not being able to religiously flatten the ram silhouette at 200 yards, let alone the buffalo silhouette, and a heavier bullet would definitely help.  Thus, I use a 312 grain, pointed silhouette bullet in my 1885 (modern make) Winchester.  Now, have I measured the twist rates in any of the above rifles?  No.  I do know I can NOT use the 312 grain bullet in my 1894, and was pleased it stabilized and shot relatively well in the 1885, and let it go at that.  If you wish to know the powder charges I use for my 1894’s. let me know and I will check my records.

Tim Tomlinson

June 9, 2017
4:27 pm
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3431
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks, Tim. Stabilization issues didn’t occur to me until last night. I don’t know what the twist rate is either but it could be a factor. Eliminated bore fouling as a factor this morning, couldn’t get even a trace of lead out of it. I’d be interested in your powder charge info when you get a chance.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 10, 2017
2:14 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 332
Member Since:
September 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TxGunNut,

  If you are trying a 255 grain lead bullet, with IMR 4198, start about 20.0 grains and ease up a little.  May be able to go to 20.5 or so.  Velocity should be in the high 1300’s to low 1400’s, about where bare lead does well in my estimation.  Much higher in velocity and it seems groups go a little wild.  While I said I had some RL-7 loads, at present can find no documentation of that, so would not recommend anything along those lines.  I seem to recall trying it with lead, but without written records, can say nothing further. I have used, and like IMR 4198 as it seems bulkier than the loads for lead using, say IMR 4227 and 2400, and seems tolerant of differing position issues.  Having said that, and in the “no good deed goes unpunished” category, I had a friend in a hurry to get some .45-70’s loaded for his T/C Contender pistol.  Against my judgement, I read off a load I used frequently in my 1886.  Soon my friend was busy shooting the “exact same load” as put together by yet another party, and it was detonating with wild pressure swings, stuck cases, etc.  Obviously it was my fault.  The fact I was on the line with the 1886 with my loads exactly as I had related to him without having any issues did not bear on the matter at all.  I thus tend to no longer give out my load recipes but only approximations and a caution to start low, and work up in your individual rifle.  

  Let me know if you have any success with your loading of 255 grain lead.  By the way, I size to .379 as that is the biggest that will allow chambering in MY rifles with Winchester long brass.  Perhaps, with either the short version of Starline brass or trimmed brass, you may be able to go to .380.  A LOT depends on the chamber dimensions as well as the groove diameter of your particular rifle.  Did I slug any of mine?  No.  I assumed the worst, sized as large as I could and get them to chamber, and it worked out.  I tend to not look for details if I have miraculously avoided a problem.  

Tim

June 10, 2017
11:06 pm
Avatar
New Mexico
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1187
Member Since:
December 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have used the Lyman 249 grain cast bullet and so far 9.0 grains of Unique produces a weak load and 24.0 grains of H4198 produces a velocity of 1660 fps with an SD of 47 out of a Model 1894 made in 1894.  The accuracy on this load was around 3″ @ 100 yards but I was primarily looking a velocities and signs of excessive pressure rather than accuracy.  Have some 200 more rounds with this load so will go for accuracy next. The bore on this rifle is about an 8 and slugs out to .379 while the bullets were sized to .377.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

June 11, 2017
2:01 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 111
Member Since:
June 11, 2014
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

I ordered a brass mould from Accurate Moulds, #AM379255L several years back. I’ve used the air-cooled, soft-cast bullets (clip on wheel weights) with gas check, in several original Winchester 1894 38-55’s and one original Marlin 1893 38-55. It gives me an average of 2″-2 & 3/4″ groups (five shots) at 100 yards no matter what rifle I shoot them out of BUT, and this is a big ‘But’, I do size them to match groove diameter, or 1 or 2 though under groove diameter. I don’t know why they shoot so well when sized that way, but they do. Of course, this is over 5744 powder.

Here is the link to the mould 

June 11, 2017
5:25 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3431
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Excellent posts, gentlemen. Thank you!

The T/C Contender analogy brought back some memories, Tim. Years ago at least four of us friends all wanted to order a 45-70 barrel for our Contenders but we all knew we wouldn’t keep it long. My plan was for all of us to pool our money and pass the barrel around, then perhaps sell it. The group is at two today, and neither of us is interested in the T/C Contender in 45-70.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 12, 2017
12:50 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3431
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well, it looks like I’ll finally get to break in that new NOE mould. I suspect there’s good reason everyone seems to load the 255 bullets. It has two gas check cavities and two plain base cavities. I’m not sure this cartridge will benefit from a GC but I suppose I’ll just have to find out.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 12, 2017
2:24 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3431
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

win38-55 said
I ordered a brass mould from Accurate Moulds, #AM379255L several years back. I’ve used the air-cooled, soft-cast bullets (clip on wheel weights) with gas check, in several original Winchester 1894 38-55’s and one original Marlin 1893 38-55. It gives me an average of 2″-2 & 3/4″ groups (five shots) at 100 yards no matter what rifle I shoot them out of BUT, and this is a big ‘But’, I do size them to match groove diameter, or 1 or 2 though under groove diameter. I don’t know why they shoot so well when sized that way, but they do. Of course, this is over 5744 powder.

Here is the link to the mould   

Couldn’t get the link to work but I’m familiar with Tom’s work. Looks quite a bit like the Lyman 375449 profile, exactly what I had in mind, thanks! I thought I had a NOE mould similar to that sitting on my shelf but was thinking of another mould apparently. NOE doesn’t make a bullet like the 379255L.Embarassed I ordered an aluminum 4-cavity mould from Tom in .381, should be here in a couple of weeks.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 23, 2017
2:44 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3431
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Shiny stuff in the mailbox today! I have dozens of bullet moulds but I still get excited every time a new one shows up, especially one from Accurate or NOE.

 

IMG_1629.JPGImage Enlarger

Oops, guess I should mention this is the mould I ordered from Accurate. Very fast service and a beautiful mould.

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: Kirk Durston, Tedk, rogertherelic, DannyBoy
69 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 9296

Posts: 80191


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1257

Members: 10721

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 4966

TXGunNut: 3431

clarence: 3352

Chuck: 2919

twobit: 2728

steve004: 2502

Maverick: 1842

Big Larry: 1632

JWA: 1616

RickC: 1461