Winchester Collector - Forum: Winchester Hunting, Shooting & Reloading

tim tomlinson on .257 bullets for stability in a 1-14 twist barrel

Tue, 26 May 2026 06:00:44 +0000

Zeb, I've been known to cheat a bit and recommend such to you now. First compare bullets by Berger with what you wish to use as to length. Then go on the Berger website and they have charts for stability of their bullet. Slow twist can be pushed a bit faster to gain stability to longer yardages. My bench rifle is in 6mmPPC and has a 1 in 13 twist rate. It will stabilize at least a 70 gr BTHP Match sierra to 300 yards (farthest for rifles on our ranges). The 90 gr Berger is marginal at best if pushed on velocity if I recall correctly. Next, the 300 gr all copper Barnes spire point in .411 diameter will stabilize to 200 yards in a factory, original 1895 Winchester in .405, but is wildly unstable at 300 yards. They are already pushed to their practical max of 2200 fps. All this is taken on warm days at 700 ft elevation. Higher elevations allow a bit longer or a bit slower bullets. Their chart is of course for their bullets, but you can gain insights. Please also consider Berger uses a longer, more tapered ogive, but overall length takes that in account I THINK. Try bullets at your range and see. Warm or hot weather thins the air and allows more stability, similar to higher elevations. Tim

Bert H. on .257 bullets for stability in a 1-14 twist barrel

Tue, 26 May 2026 03:21:59 +0000

Bill,

First question... what specifically do you intend to shoot with your 250-3000 (e.g. whitetail deer or something else)?

Second question... at what range (distance) do you intend to shoot it?

I have found that Sierra 70-grain .257 JSP bullet shoots wonderfully in my 1:14 twist 25-20 S.S. With careful placed head (ear) or neck shots, it will cleanly kill any deer sized critter. My Single Shot (low-wall) rifle with its 28-inch barrel likes 12.0 grains of IMR 4198 underneath the Sierra 70 grain JSP bullet.

25 CAL 70 GR Tipped VarmintKing (TVK) - Sierra Bullets

That stated, if I were to specifically hunt deer with a 250-3000 I would probably choose the 75 grain V-Max bullet.

This link provides some interesting background information concerning the 250-3000 cartridge - .250-3000/.250 Savage (ballisticstudies.com)

Bert

Zebulon on .257 bullets for stability in a 1-14 twist barrel

Tue, 26 May 2026 00:32:46 +0000

I'm about to start loading .250-3000 ammunition again - but this time for shooting in a 1-14 twist, 24" barrel instead of a 1-10 twist, 18.5" barrel. While higher velocities will be possible with 5.5" more barrel, the slower twist was of concern. My preferred game bullet has been the 100 grain Nosler Partition or Ballistic Tip, or the 100 grain Hornady Spire Point.

According to JMB'S Web engine for running Miller calculations, NONE of those can reach stability at an assumed 3,000 foot seconds muzzle velocity, on a Standard Day.

After running repeated calculations with slight changes in projectile length, it appears there are surprisingly few game bullets in current manufacture -- all in the 85-87 grain weight range -- that will reach the Miller standard for gyroscopic stability.

Surprisingly, while the Speer 87 grain spitzer qualifies, the Hornady 87 grain Spire Point is marginal. Nosler's 85 grain Ballistic Tip - which they classify as a varmint bullet -- qualifies, although I haven't got one in hand and may have overstated the length of the plastic tip.

Chuck on Highwall in 45 EX

Mon, 25 May 2026 19:12:07 +0000

$309 but not anymore.

TXGunNut said
Nice! I like the new retaining nuts. Good to see a big company like Lee doing custom work. I've been part of some bullet mould group buys where if we got enough people that wanted a custom mould Lee would do a limited run for us. A fellow hog hunter from Cuero, Texas had a knack for designing wide meplat heavy hunting bullets that he tested on the hogs frequenting his ranch. I did a bit of Beta testing on the hogs a few hours south of his place. I wonder how Ranch Dog is doing these days.

Mike

With the O rings the rings stay put and no tools required. Redding claims they can make dies too but the cost is quite a bit more.

Bert H. on Highwall in 45 EX

Mon, 25 May 2026 17:19:36 +0000

Chuck said
Here is a pic of the 45 EX dies.
When they returned the brass and bullets they also included 1 sized dummy round with a seated bullet. Loads with no problems.

What was the final tab for those dies? The look really nice

TXGunNut on Highwall in 45 EX

Mon, 25 May 2026 17:17:59 +0000

Nice! I like the new retaining nuts. Good to see a big company like Lee doing custom work. I've been part of some bullet mould group buys where if we got enough people that wanted a custom mould Lee would do a limited run for us. A fellow hog hunter from Cuero, Texas had a knack for designing wide meplat heavy hunting bullets that he tested on the hogs frequenting his ranch. I did a bit of Beta testing on the hogs a few hours south of his place. I wonder how Ranch Dog is doing these days.

Mike

Chuck on Highwall in 38 EX

Mon, 25 May 2026 16:14:08 +0000

In the next month or so I will send some new non fire formed brass and some fire formed brass to Lee Precision. I want them to make a 4 or 5 die set for the 38 EX. This time I want them to make the regular 3 die set but do whatever is needed to reduce the top 1-1/2" so the parent brass will go into the chamber to be fire formed. I was told the price for any of the EX dies would be more than what they charged for the 45 EX and to send them during their off peak time, July and August.

Chuck on 40 Ex

Mon, 25 May 2026 16:04:23 +0000

I bought some CCI LR primers and will try them out tomorrow. Loaded the 5 cases with 30, 30.5, 31, 31.5 and 32 grains of 4198.

Chuck on Highwall in 45 EX

Mon, 25 May 2026 15:59:54 +0000

Here is a pic of the 45 EX dies.

When they returned the brass and bullets they also included 1 sized dummy round with a seated bullet. Loads with no problems.

TXGunNut on 4198 powder

Sun, 24 May 2026 12:35:39 +0000

Bert H. said

TXGunNut said
I only get (289) 222 Rem Mag loads per pound, but I should be set for a few years now.
Bert

That's what I like about the 22 Hornet, pretty stingy on the powder. 500 per pound, +/-. These days it's certainly food for thought.

Mike

Mike,
Yes, and that is why I have strongly advocated that you join the HOA (Hornet Owners Association)! I actually get (560) rounds per pound for the 22 Hornet... 12.5 grains of Hodgdon Lil Gun per ctg. That said, neither of my K-Hornets are quite as stingy, and (500) rounds per pound is about all that I can get out of 1-lb.
I try to buy Lil Gun, Bullseye, and I4198 in as large of a quantity per container as possible.

Bert-

We'll see. This spring has been especially brutal towards my discretionary funds but the dust should settle before I head for Cody. I'm also way behind on my other projects and don't need any distractions, as the 22 Hornet would surely be. I have plenty of components (including powder!) for those projects!

Mike

tim tomlinson on 4198 powder

Sun, 24 May 2026 04:31:14 +0000

In case of fire, the local department may take the scenic route! I have probably too much on hands and my local department may make a few wrong turns getting here. Ft. Lewis, back when I was there, mandated no more than 1 lb of powder, but you could have all the gasoline you wished. Stupid but it was what it was. Tim

Bert H. on 4198 powder

Sun, 24 May 2026 01:46:07 +0000

TXGunNut said
I only get (289) 222 Rem Mag loads per pound, but I should be set for a few years now.
Bert

That's what I like about the 22 Hornet, pretty stingy on the powder. 500 per pound, +/-. These days it's certainly food for thought.

Mike

Mike,

Yes, and that is why I have strongly advocated that you join the HOA (Hornet Owners Association)! I actually get (560) rounds per pound for the 22 Hornet... 12.5 grains of Hodgdon Lil Gun per ctg. That said, neither of my K-Hornets are quite as stingy, and (500) rounds per pound is about all that I can get out of 1-lb.

I try to buy Lil Gun, Bullseye, and I4198 in as large of a quantity per container as possible.

Bert

TXGunNut on 4198 powder

Sun, 24 May 2026 01:09:58 +0000

I only get (289) 222 Rem Mag loads per pound, but I should be set for a few years now.

Bert

That's what I like about the 22 Hornet, pretty stingy on the powder. 500 per pound, +/-. These days it's certainly food for thought.

Mike

Bert H. on 4198 powder

Sat, 23 May 2026 23:00:13 +0000

TXGunNut said

Bert H. said

tim tomlinson said
Bert, Just like yesterday, only IMR 3031 in stock. Won't even list IMR 4198 as "out of stock". Had you had it on back order? Tim


Tim,
No I did not have it on back order. I simply ordered it online and they delivered it. I do have an account with them though.
Bert


Apparently would have been a good day to invest in a Lottery ticket.

Mike

If all works out, I will have 10.2 lbs of IMR 4198 and 2 lbs of H4198 in my powder locker by the end of this month

I only get (289) 222 Rem Mag loads per pound, but I should be set for a few years now.

Bert

TXGunNut on 4198 powder

Sat, 23 May 2026 22:39:16 +0000

Bert H. said

tim tomlinson said
Bert, Just like yesterday, only IMR 3031 in stock. Won't even list IMR 4198 as "out of stock". Had you had it on back order? Tim

Tim,
No I did not have it on back order. I simply ordered it online and they delivered it. I do have an account with them though.
Bert

Apparently would have been a good day to invest in a Lottery ticket.

Mike