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I will take a look in one of my Newton books. There are a lot of articles by Newton, Ross and Crossman. Newton and Ross definitely had a working connection but Newton and Crossman mostly argued about which is better the lever action or the “lever bolt”.
Chuck said
I will take a look in one of my Newton books. There are a lot of articles by Newton, Ross and Crossman. Newton and Ross definitely had a working connection but Newton and Crossman mostly argued about which is better the lever action or the “lever bolt”.
Newton sure didn’t make many of those leverbolt rifles.
steve004 said
Newton sure didn’t make many of those leverbolt rifles.
That’s true but a lot of the problems were out of his control. Like WWI. A Winchester Model 70 has a few similar components. Newton was a better ballistician than a gun maker.
The Canadian Library & Archives in Ottawa have a Ross Rifle Factory shipping ledger that has details of rifles shipped from I think 1917. I have not read it personaly but hope to at some point. I am not sure if the rifle on Gunbroker would be listed or not.
I can dig out the file reference number if anyone is interested.
Regards
AlanD
aland said
The Canadian Library & Archives in Ottawa have a Ross Rifle Factory shipping ledger that has details of rifles shipped from I think 1917. I have not read it personaly but hope to at some point. I am not sure if the rifle on Gunbroker would be listed or not.
I can dig out the file reference number if anyone is interested.
Regards
AlanD
Alan – thank you for your input. I was not aware there were any surviving ledger records on any Ross rifles. I would like to know more about this.
As you know, some of our group of Ross collectors are in Canada and some may not be far from Ottawa. As far as the gunbroker rifle, it is now sold and I was never interested in acquiring that rifle. The Winchester connection intrigued me. I had several reservations about the rifle. The seller stated the rifle was manufactured in the Ross plant in 1919 – which was an impossibility as the plant closed in 1917. Also, the Winchester markings are dated 1920. However, just because Winchester didn’t acquire the rifle from the Ross factory, that doesn’t mean they didn’t acquire it from someone. I mainly posted it here to see if other collectors had seen similar markings on other rifle acquired by Winchester.
Steve sorry for the slow response. The file is not exactly what I thought but close.
“Price and Deliveries of Second Hand Ross Rifles Vols 1-4” 1917-1939.
File Reference: RG24-C-1-a.
Item ID: 1887931
The fact there are four volumes would seen to indicate serial numbers may be given, or it could just be correspondence of coarse.
If you wish to contact me by email it is:
alandavid303 AT optusnet DOT com DOT au
Subdifuge above is to try and defeat the web spiders which collect email addresses.
Regards
Alan
aland said
Steve sorry for the slow response. The file is not exactly what I thought but close.“Price and Deliveries of Second Hand Ross Rifles Vols 1-4” 1917-1939.
File Reference: RG24-C-1-a.
Item ID: 1887931
The fact there are four volumes would seen to indicate serial numbers may be given, or it could just be correspondence of coarse.
If you wish to contact me by email it is:
alandavid303 AT optusnet DOT com DOT au
Subdifuge above is to try and defeat the web spiders which collect email addresses.
Regards
Alan
Alan – thanks for the information. It is intriguing. No need to decipher your email address. Your email address autopopulated for me in my e-mail system. That’s because we’ve been corresponding since 2010 🙂
Hey All… The line from Young Frankenstein… “It’s Alive! That’s me and this Thread. Haven’t been back here except one quick take shortly since my ‘Giga-Post’. Futzing with that and the pix for some hours! Whatever caused??? Notably that Post showing accurately about 03:50 hours as finally getting it accomplished. So self-disgusted, not returning in any real sense until this evening!
WOW, Steve! “Your” Ross Website! Amazing and respected! I really appreciated the effort, kind folks and substantial “sole source” available information I gleaned from there.
I’d set aside active collecting for some period as rotating overseas during early post-Soviet engagement. Working with Russian Federation MVD and Ukrainian counterparts. Shooting a lot of Soviet era military weapons! What fun! Seems to my your Website, disappearing only within the decade! Now to assume what you’ve here confirmed concerning the demise. “A time for all things!”
I’ve never made any 2Km shots… knowledgeably and intentionally at least! For me quite possibly either unintentionally or calculated and hitting such distant target. The latter, simple formula neither requiring hawk-vision or ultra-accurate weapon! Only same degree of luck required for hitting “Super Lotto”; whatever! But no matter! Never to ‘eschew’ taking of the ‘ewe’ or even to be ‘accused’. Oh my. 🙂 🙂 🙂
As far as the Ross serrated bolt head analogy, better one perhaps in Newton’s First own Model Rifle. (Actual first as commercial Oberndorf Mausers, converted.) Him, quite a man, approaching “for all seasons”! Engineer, lawyer, ballistician, firearms designer, manufacturer, entrepreneur! I believe his Achilles Heel, as so many great technical folks… “Marketing!” That and absurdly terrible luck! Relying heavily upon his custom cartridges as springboard to success. Great War, foreclosing his sole-source Oberndorf rifle supply chain. Other great rifle manufacturers, ‘war wares engaged’. Beginning ‘his’ rifle production on a shoestring. Advertising budget, nil. His soon 1917 bankruptcy. Plant, equipment, inventory, sold off. Returning in twenties with the Buffalo Newton rifle. Finally the noted “Leverbolt”. Estimated productions, respectively: 4K First Newton Model* including under receivership. Second Model* ‘perhaps’ 1K. Lever Model, never reaching market! Truly “The Father of High Velocity” a fitting title if largely “In Memorium”! (I have both First & Buffalo Newton rifles, but dare not tempt fate “with pix” here! 🙂
Returning momentarily to the instant Ross – Winchester Connect… Among so many colorful ‘gun’ stories. As: 1. suspiciously increasing value/collectability; 2. exhibits in totality, tending more to refute than support the proposition offered; 3. lacking what would seem pivotal provenance to move beyond “hypothecation”… Here, perhaps to merely adopt the “colorful” aspect and enjoy the proposition for entertainment value and… Great chat! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Best and thanks to all who’ve made this Thread entertaining! Apologies to the “Winchester Only” Web origins for my own “deviant behavior!”
Kindly stay safe in these times!
John
Newton, shot mine yesterday. Didn’t group well. I think I have my bullets to close to the lands, jammed. Bolt closed but it took some pressure. Fired cases will load easily so it must be my seating depth?
iskra said
Hey All… The line from Young Frankenstein… “It’s Alive! That’s me and this Thread. Haven’t been back here except one quick take shortly since my ‘Giga-Post’.
WOW, Steve! “Your” Ross Website! Amazing and respected! I really appreciated the effort, kind folks and substantial “sole source” available information I gleaned from there.
John
John – thanks for your comments on rossrifle.com. All that remains of the site is the forum. Over the past 8 there are about 700 topics with about 3500 posts. The site had been much more extensive with reprinted articles, a blog, a nice photo gallery – which was all lost though a data corruption issue. The forum remains and contains a lot of information. Anyone interested in registering can contact me. Originally I had a self-registration feature and I was absolutely overwhelmed with spam registrations. I learned a lot operating a website!
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